Guardian Film Blog on 2000AD Films

[Dan Kelly]

Happy New Year All

Spotter this over on The Guardian and thought it might make sense to point some informed minds at it.

Have at it  

[radiator]

Cheers, nice link!

[Peter Wolf]

Interesting article that kind of sums up my attitude to making films out of the material.Its long overdue really considering most of the well known  US material has all been done now.

Interesting comments that have been posted with shouts for various different characters and strips but no shouts for a Meltdown Man [it would make a fantastic 2 - 2.5 hr epic] film but thats no surprise.

Some of the comments are saying that a lot of the material is unsuitable for film which i disagree with because i am sure that the writers/creators are perfectly capable of encapsulating their own characters into 2 Hr screenplays.

Some are saying that the material is too risky to turn into films because the material/characters are not well known enough.I dont see the problem because how many films scripts involve characters that are unique to the film and nothing else [no related books ,comics etc] ?

So what ?

The success of a film has nothing to do with how well known the characters are within the film.Does anyone say "I am not interested in seeing this film because i dont know who the characters are or the book or the comic ?"

I dont.I go and see it if its a good film.

Films that have been made using well known comic characters have flopped because they were crap so that argument proves nothing really.

Did anyone know who John McClane was before Die Hard ?

[Bouwel]

The problem is that sci-fi films are normally very expensive to produce and few studios are willing to take the risk for various reasons. For example, Gattaca was 'cheap' to make so the studios didn't mind shelling out for something a little off-beat from the normal dross that gets pumped out (good film btw...see it!).

I agree that a lot of 2000AD would make for great films if they were made with skill. But imagine a Meltdown film and the shear cost of all the CGI required to bring the Yujees to life.

Not going to happen. And that's a shame and says a lot about the state of film production today.

-Bouwel-

[Peter Wolf]

Yes its the state of the film industry and its production studios.Mainly Hollywood i have to say.I see less and less films because i am tired of the formulaic crap they churn out and wasting money on it.

Anyway its a problem.

The problem [for studios] with MM is its sheer scale and range of characters that would have to be CGId like you say.given the right budget it could be done.We have the technology...

As for the economic situation [that should never have happened and is the result of a failed economic experiment or deliberately planned.Take your pick as either way it was/is insanity and criminal] that all depends wether it will be a standard 21 month cycle or longer but even if it wasnt happening the film studios are mostly runned by morons [must resist...] who lack the intelligence to handle this material or are too scared to take a risk [must resist...] so either way like you say it wont happen and really its for the best .

Its like there isnt anyone in a film studio that seems able to point out that the film they are producing is Garbage:I.E Babylon AD.Was there anyone involved in that film with any intelligence and discernment ??

[must resist...]



The success  of Watchmen either commercially or scriptwise will decide if less known material will make it onto screens in the future and be economically viable.It looks promising so far.....

[Judge Snoop]

A lot of brain washed filmmakers seem to think the central character in a film must learn something about life from their 'Hero's Journey'. I find this pretty trite myself and unsuitable to Dredd. Dredd's more of a Leone 'man with no name' type, or Dirty Harry type, or even a James Bond type, in that, psychologically, he starts out the story and finishes the story in the same place. He may have the odd doubt and occasionally show compassion but this is usually shown in a fairly subtle way and not in an overwrought, swelling music, punch the air, way.

I'm glad it's a production company that might understand this and not some Hollywood churn em out garbage factory that's compelled to transpose their inane formula on everything they touch.

[Peter Wolf]

"I'm glad it's a production company that might understand this and not some Hollywood churn em out garbage factory that's compelled to transpose their inane formula on everything they touch "

I havent quite worked out wether they transpose this inane formula onto everything they touch because they make the assumption that *everyone* who pays to see a film is a moron OR because generally speaking they are all Morons themselves.

Its probably a bit of both and part of the decline of popular culture .I dont mind either way because i save money that i can spend on other things instead of films.

[Dandontdare]

I havent quite worked out wether they transpose this inane formula onto everything they touch because they make the assumption that *everyone* who pays to see a film is a moron OR because generally speaking they are all Morons themselves

They do it because they are businessmen - critically acclaimed films, beloved by a relatively small fan-following (such as ourselves) don't make money, lowest-common-denominator mass-appeal films do.

[Peter Wolf]

I havent quite worked out wether they transpose this inane formula onto everything they touch because they make the assumption that *everyone* who pays to see a film is a moron OR because generally speaking they are all Morons themselves

They do it because they are businessmen - critically acclaimed films, beloved by a relatively small fan-following (such as ourselves) don't make money, lowest-common-denominator mass-appeal films do.

You say that and its true but it never used to be like this .The lowest common denominator always rule but it has to be said that Hollywood has become more formulaic so i am very choosy these days.Have intelligence levels dropped massively in the last 5 years or have i changed ??

I think its the former and believe me i am not a film snob as i dont get on with arthouse cinema and i love Hollywood schlock but its all style and NO substance now.I am not saying that this is true of every Hollywood film but most of the time it is.The problem seems to be mostly a script problem.I used to devour films but not anymore.It also seems to depend on the choice of director.There arent very many decent film directors working in Hollywood any more.

Formularising films like music kills any creativity.

[Dandontdare]

I think one of the reasons is not that the population has become more stupid en-masse, but that films have become much more expensive - when even a relatively small budget film costs millions, to which you add the publicity/distribution costs , then studios become more risk-averse and take what they see as the safest, most mass-appeal formula.

Also, there is vastly more competition for our attention these days, hence the necessarily high publicity budgets, and competition to get viewers. "Back in the day', the local cinemas had one screen and showed one film for a  week or more, and everybody who liked films went to see it. Football matches drew crowds of 80-100 thousand, and the top TV programmes could attract 80% of the viewing public. This just doesn't happen these days. Nowadays  a hell of a lot more movies get made, which have to compete with the internet, TV etc.

Formularising films like music kills any creativity.

sadly true

[Judge Snoop]

For decades the Hero's Journey formula has been seen by marketing people and filmmakers themselves as the plot structure that must be adhered to. It's in Star wars, it's in Rocky, it's in a lot of very successful movies and many good ones too. These days though it has become a bit familiar, I see it coming a mile off at least. Stallone constructed his Dredd that way, with the hero being cast out, becoming dejected, rediscovering his mojo, and finally kicking ass.

The Hero's Journey is not always a bad thing, it does work sometimes but there are an endless stream of goons holding screenwriting seminars that teach that the Hero's Journey, bound in a 3 act structure, is the only way to go. There are an endless amount of film making people attending those seminars too. I don't see Dredd as a Hero's Journey type. If he has an emotional or psychological arc it should be fairly subtle, like a small sign of compassion or something at the end. Small things often hold more power anyway.

I think something visceral and satirical and imaginative would come of trusting the original material but, as has been said, the cost of film making makes it hard to trust instinct and so trusty old formulas are sought and yes, that damages creativity.

[Peter Wolf]

"I don't see Dredd as a Hero's Journey type. If he has an emotional or psychological arc it should be fairly subtle, like a small sign of compassion or something at the end. Small things often hold more power anyway."

Yes that is absolutely exactly it really.My thoughts exactly.They dont happen very often those sort of psychological /emotional arcs but i love it when they do especially when it takes you by surprise and you think i never thought that they had it in them etc.

[Judge Snoop]

"I don't see Dredd as a Hero's Journey type. If he has an emotional or psychological arc it should be fairly subtle, like a small sign of compassion or something at the end. Small things often hold more power anyway."

Yes that is absolutely exactly it really.My thoughts exactly.They dont happen very often those sort of psychological /emotional arcs but i love it when they do especially when it takes you by surprise and you think i never thought that they had it in them etc.

Even when I was a kid watching The Good The Bad and the Ugly I picked up on the unspoken sympathy Blondie had for Tuco after they met with Tuco's morally superior monk brother. Blondie didn't say anything, he just listened as Tuco told pathetic lies about how fond his brother was of him. The sympathy was conveyed very subtly in the way Blondie listened to Tuco without telling him he knew he was talking b.s.

Blondie was an unchanging moral constant in the movie, Tuco was conflicted (a bit like a Mega City Citizen), and Angel Eyes was pretty evil (although there is a deleted scene in the DvD extras where even Angel Eyes shows subtle but distinct disgust at the waste of life caused by the American Civil War). The three characters have their inevitable show down and the film ends with Blondie's 'judgment' of Tuco. This judgment is a source of great suspense and you could say it is what the whole film was building toward. Like the occasional Dredd tale, I think this is proof that an emotional story can be told without a main character having 'issues' like Spidey or Hulk, or undergoing a profound change in attitude like Iron Man. Watching a Dredd movie, the audience could even be made think that Dredd is a bit of an austere fundamentalist loon but then he could do something subtle or give a final judgment that surprises everyone like you say. In the film Dredd may need a more emotionally demonstrative supporting cast but that's always been the case in the comics. As long as it isn't a touchy feely Judge Hershey or an impossible to warm to Rob Schneider.

Have to say though, the way Angel Eyes left Tuco at the end wasn't exactly compassionate but it was perversely merciful and true to the characters.

[Dark Jimbo]

Even when I was a kid watching The Good The Bad and the Ugly I picked up on the unspoken sympathy Blondie had for Tuco after they met with Tuco's morally superior monk brother. Blondie didn't say anything, he just listened as Tuco told pathetic lies about how fond his brother was of him. The sympathy was conveyed very subtly in the way Blondie listened to Tuco without telling him he knew he was talking b.s.

Man, I love that scene. So understated, but so powerful, and as you say it's incredible the way you learn so much about Blondie's character simply by him sitting in silence throughout the scene and not telling Tuco what he thinks of him.

[Peter Wolf]

Profound changes in character i like but it all depends on the context or reason for it happening.