Frazer Irvings Judge helmets?

HiEx · 23 May, 2002, 03:46:23 PM

I'm enjoying the new Frazer Irving drawn Death stip immensly. So far it's doing a great job of putting a serious and frighting tone back into what recently become a very camp and comical character. However, there's one element of Irving's art that is really bugging me.

Sorry if this has been mentioned before but, what is up with the shape of Irving's judge helmets. I mean, I'm all for artisic licence and all that, but the Judges are wearing bloody goldfish bowls on their heads!!! If Irving can get the shape of Death's helmet correct, whay can't he draw the Judges helmets properly.

HiEx

Wood · 23 May, 2002, 03:51:36 PM

Isn't it up to the artist?

wasn't there a similar amount of debate about Brendan McCarthy's pointy judge helmets?

I like 'em. It shows Frazer's making the strip his own.

HiEx · 23 May, 2002, 04:06:17 PM

I'm just wondering if the 2000AD editorial staff actually give artists any guidlines to follow for drawing characters equipment etc. I suspect not, as we have seen some very weird interpretations of Judges uniforms, Lawgivers, Lawmasters over the years.

I don't mind artistic licence within limits, but completely changing the shape of the Judges helmet is a bit much for me.

On a positive note though I love Irving's Judge Death and he does a nice job of drawing the Lawgiver MK.11 as shown in episode # 1 of the new Death story, (if I remember correctly).

Sorry, but I'm quite anal about artists screwing up drawing equipment!

HiEx

Mudcrab · 23 May, 2002, 04:09:31 PM

I don't like them. There was one in particular last week that just looked plain stupid. That's the only gripe I have with the Death series. I'm not saying he can't or shouldn't do it, but I think it spoils it. And lets face it, the vain attempt to "make the strip his own" is just plain arrogance. It's not his strip, it's Wagner and Bollands strip, albeit not creator owned. But, if artists insist on forcing us to look at their 'special helmets' then so be it. It'll just cause more people to say "What the f**ck's that? That's not a judges helmet!"

DavidXBrunt · 23 May, 2002, 04:34:11 PM

I disagree with you there. It was created by Wagner and Ezquerra but that doesn't mean people have to slavishly follow where they started. A lot of the better artists - Bolland, McMahon, Kennedy, Smith, Doherty, and so on draw the strip in their own way. As long as it's the same general look that's fine.

Irving should be encouraged to do things his way. The helmets are still recognisable Judge Helmets.
But I can see that they are probably about as far as they could go.

Sorry it's spoiling an aspect of this story for you because it's a mighty fine story. And Irving is probably the best Death art. Ever. And I mean that. I've directly compared pages to art by Bolland and Doherty. Irving is the man.

Mangamax · 23 May, 2002, 04:44:24 PM

Agree. All the artist is doing is interpreting the story. It'd be dull as dishwater if no artist could stray from the accepted version (which happens a lot with DC and Marvel). And its hardly a new thing - look at Ezquerria's Dredd now compared to prog 2 or Death's regular style compared to the long neck version that Bisley did and was copied for the action figure.

paulvonscott · 23 May, 2002, 04:45:40 PM

Sorry Guys, round helmets rock, I suspect it would look daft with most artits, but this really works for me.

I feel a poll coming on...

(no, stop it)

HiEx · 23 May, 2002, 04:51:13 PM

I would say they are only just vaguely recognisable as Judge helmets and personally I do find it detracts from the story.

My view on things is that in a comic, a great story is important, but a great story can be spoilt by bad art, where as a bad story can be made enjoyable by excellent art.

Now I'm not say Frazer Irving's art is bad. On the contrary I think he's doing a wonderful job, except for the Judge helmets.

I've just got this mental image of him sitting at his drawing board and using a schoolboy compass to draw perfect circles around all the Judges's heads for their helmets....so, somebody please take Frazer's compass away from him quick!

HiEx

paulvonscott · 23 May, 2002, 05:05:24 PM

Personally I find it a bit of a breath of fresh air, PARTICULARLY as a lot of Dredd artists draw a fucking terrible helmet. Nobody ever complains about those.

Cliff Robinson, who I love, his helmet is pants, really fucking awful, I wish he'd change it. Now that is recognisable as the standard helmet and nobody ever complains about that. Its like a particluarly bad attempt at a 70's Ezquerra.

Then you get a whole load of artists who draw a helmet a cross between the bolland classic and mcarthy samurai, making this ugly 'thing'.

Personally, I like it when artists do something new within the parametres of the strip, I love looking at different takes such as Ewins, McCarthy and the others.

I don't think many people would get away with this desgin, but I think Frazers managed it, I certainly would be very doubtful of anyone else could do it and not make it ridiculous.

Oddboy · 23 May, 2002, 05:13:53 PM

I like 'em.
The only problem I can see is one of continuity:-
If Death nicked his helmet from a dead Judge & stuck a grill over the front to make it a Dark Judge's helmet how come the whole shape changed?
Shouldn't Death's helmet be round as well?

Mudcrab · 23 May, 2002, 05:18:49 PM

Well, ok, Dredd was created by Ezqerra, but not Death. But seeing it's not Death's helmet we're talking about...

paulvonscott · 23 May, 2002, 05:34:48 PM

Well, what you have to remember is that what the artists is protraying is his vision of what happens. DO you really think Justice Department change the style of their uniforms every week? Is their a tired quartermaster judge sighing, because Hershey has demanded that we have the McCarthy Samurai this week, but to have the Eighties Model Ezquerra on standby?

The correct answer is of course: bollocks do we

Mudcrab · 23 May, 2002, 05:40:03 PM

He he, that's a very good point. Maybe it's made of material that could have been completely reshaped. Or maybe that wasn't thought of? Oh dear!

Mudcrab · 23 May, 2002, 05:42:53 PM

Not at all, not at all. I just don't like the round ones.

Oh yeah, and Andersons face is too chubby, she looks more like Baby Spice! :o) It's like it's all in widescreen but shouldn't be.

Mangamax · 24 May, 2002, 01:47:02 AM

By coincidence, i just read an interview with Pat Mills and Simon Bisley where Mills says "... the best Dredd's, for example, are when artists have said fuck everything else, i'm going to do it my way.... people have been so fucking brainwashed by "house style" that they don't know any better. I find it depressing because it dehumanises individuality"
And that was back in 1989.