Can I offer a big "Thank You"

[Woolly]

Can someone please tell me *why* macs are better?
For example, photoshop. Does it do its job any better on  mac?

Or is it simply that macos is a better operating system?

Yours
Confused of Sheffield

[Art]

Macs are better because you get to be intolerably smug. That's about it.

[Jim_Campbell]

"Can someone please tell me *why* macs are better?
For example, photoshop. Does it do its job any better on mac?

Or is it simply that macos is a better operating system? "

Firstly ... I just want to stress that I didn't bring Macs into this, and it wasn't my intention to do so. For what it's worth, I find Word fucking irritating on the Mac, too.

I can't answer your question about comparisons with any authority, because I'm still (quite happily) using my seven year old G4 running OS 9.1 and unaltered from the spec it came out of the box with.

There's a reason why something like two-thirds of all the Macs ever made are still in use, however, and that's because people love 'em in a way that people just _don't_ love their Windows boxes.

For me, my Mac experience is this simple: they just work.

When I got my aforementioned Performa 450 in '94, I had it out of the boxes and set up in less than 15 minutes and had created and printed my first document in less than an hour.

Fantastic. It did what I wanted without having to read a single manual. Within a few months, I was confident enough to upgrade the RAM myself and discovered the amazing simplicity of the old "pizza box" design. Two thumb catched at the back of the case, and you were in - a design only bettered with the side catch introduced on the G4.

They're just nice machines. Nicely designed and nicely built.

I'd never tell _anyone_ that they _needed_ a Mac ... I think of them a bit like the BMWs of the computer world: you pay through the nose for extra build quality and a user experience that no-one really _needs_, but that it's bloody nice to have if you can afford it.

Back when I was a graphic designer, there most definitely _was_ a difference, and I've included a link to my thoughts on that matter - it's hopelessly out of date, but the whole thread is neatly illustrative of the entrenched positions on both sides of the Mac/Windows divide.

I'll shut up now ...

Cheers

Jim

Link: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.flame.macintosh/msg/140c399d784f8034?&hl=en&q=group%3Aalt.flame.macintosh+author%3Ajim+author%3Acampbellhttp://groups.google.com/group/alt.flame.macintosh/msg/140c399d784f8034?&hl=en&q=group%3Aalt.flame.macintosh+au" target="_blank">Ancient Ramblings

[Wils]

I think these days it really is just a question of personal preference, although I agree that years ago there *was* a massive difference between the ability of Macs and PCs, especially for computer-based design work. The only thing that's always really incensed me about Macs is the snobbery that some people harbour. It's almost as bad as the sad knackers that are *still* doing their best to keep alive the Speccy-vs-Commodore-vs-Amstrad war 20-odd years on.

[Quirkafleeg]

>There's a reason why something like two-thirds of all the Macs ever made are still in use, however, and that's because people love 'em in a way that people just _don't_ love their Windows boxes.

Is there a special slot to shove your knob in?

And the real argument is if you were one of those nice children who watched Blue Peter sitting on the sofa and always did your homework on time and had BBC micro or wether you were one of the cool and or hard kids who had a Speccy / Commadore / whatever

[Richmond Clements]

And the real argument is if you were one of those nice children who watched Blue Peter sitting on the sofa and always did your homework on time and had BBC micro or wether you were one of the cool and or hard kids who had a Speccy / Commadore / whatever

Erm...BBC Micro.
Don't hit me!

[SamuelAWilkinson]

Acorn Electron me up...

[IndigoPrime]

:: I think these days it really is just a question
:: of personal preference

To some extent. I've used Windows since 3.0 and Macs since system 7. At the moment, I'm using Mac OS X 10.4 and Windows XP. Even now, I consider the Mac OS more usable than Windows. It's just more logical and it appears to have been designed by designers rather than engineers going "well, that's how *we* do it! It's obvious to *us*, so just fuck off", which is how Windows appears to be developed. Both systems have their failings, and both slow over time (although Windows is far worse at this).

:: The only thing that's always really incensed me about Macs
:: is the snobbery that some people harbour.

Frankly, PC users are just as bad at being zealots. I know a lot of people who toe the "Macs suck!" line, despite having never used one. Mac users can be smug, and PC users can be ignorant. Neither quality is particularly endearing.

As for Word, at least the Mac version has a live word count. I was amazed when I got the Windows version and discovered you had to click something to update the sodding word count counter. Grrr.

[Jim_Campbell]

"Ah, but did you prefer the ZX Spectrum or the Commodore 64?"

I had a BBC Micro (ahh... Elite ... how close I came to failing my O Levels because of that game) followed by an Atari ST upgraded to a whole MEGABYTE of RAM ...

Cheers

Jim

[Matt Timson]

To be honest, anyone not extremely familiar with both Mac and PC is talking out of their arse when slating whatever it is they don't use (and when I say 'Mac', I really mean OS X and above).

For me, it's definitely the operating system that makes the difference.  You can do anything on a PC that you can do on a Mac- no argument there- but OS X pisses all over Windows XP as far as I'm concerned and Windows would have to offer something fucking amazing to entice me back now.

And yes, Gary- it IS beautifully designed- both inside and out.  If it came with a hole for my nob, I might even be tempted...

;)

[Wils]

If it came with a hole for my nob, I might even be tempted...

A Dremel with a very small bit and you're sorted, then! ;)

I've not actually got to use OS X at all thanks to my last job being owned by a bunch of tight-fisted twats (I was having to use OS 9 on a G2, Photoshop 5, Illustrator 7 and Quark 4), so I can't really comment on that front. This has really had the knock-on effect that I'm now fucked CV-wise in that department, unless I fib and say I've actually used OS X, when I haven't.

[IndigoPrime]

:: This has really had the knock-on effect that I'm now fucked
:: CV-wise in that department, unless I fib and say I've actually
:: used OS X, when I haven't.

Just buy one of those "24 hour" books on OS X. If you're a long-time computer user, you should be able to get enough knowledge by just reading about it. Frankly, it's not _that_ different to OS 9 anyway, although its lack of constantly crashing is very much appreciated.

[Jim_Campbell]

"I've not actually got to use OS X at all thanks to my last job being owned by a bunch of tight-fisted twats (I was having to use OS 9 on a G2, Photoshop 5, Illustrator 7 and Quark 4), so I can't really comment on that front. This has really had the knock-on effect that I'm now fucked CV-wise in that department, unless I fib and say I've actually used OS X, when I haven't."

Yeah, what IP said ... although I'm still on OS9, we moved to new Macs and OSX in my last design job. Setting them up and using them was a piece of piss [1]. X is prettier than 9, but you can use it in pretty much exactly the same way as 9, and I certainly didn't find Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign or Quark behaving differently at all.

Cheers

Jim

[1] I will even admit to giving an appreciative little chuckle when I plugged the first Mac into the ethernet socket and it went away and successfully auto-detected every PC and printer on the network, including the image setter, which I certainly wasn't expecting ...

[Wils]

Cheers. I've always thought I'd pick it up in no time, but not having used it at all really pissed me off.

Tbh, my last job, apart from taking the piss (no pay review at all in the four years I was there and having the oldest, least powerful machine in the office when I needed more than anyone else), it became embarassing when more and more clients came in with stuff on disc and we couldn't open them, because all of our software was that fucking old. We'd either have to send them away again or muggins would have to forego his lunch break and take the fucker home to backpedal it on my PC.

*And* I had to wear a shit tie. ;)

[Megadeth]

My first and only experience of Macs was a fairly disapointing one but it was only because I was a chucked in at the deep end and expected to edit my film with Final Cut Pro without everhaing experienced the one button mouse. When i thought i had the program sorted i messed up using the mouse and then the other way around.

I'd love a chance to properly use one without a tight deadline hanging over me.