Golden Age

[beta]

I've just logged on for the first time after several years away, and I have to say that I'm deeply disapointed.
Long ago 2000AD was the figurehead of british sci-fi. An unamerican american antihero, before being basterdised by an awful film, provided a bleak vision of the future. Funny, shocking, always entertaining, 2000AD was what all other comics wantd to be. The days of Johnny Alpha, however, are long gone. Cuts hve resulted in constant reprints and a dramatic fall in standards. The strontium dog no long stnds like a titan over the ghetto of MiltonKeynes, Dredd has become a parody of a parody. He was always a fascist, thrown in face of amercan values. Now it all means nothing.

[Devons Daddy]

as you say you have been away a while
but ive i a while, you have hjust entered a critical period in dredd, in fact maybe we re witnessign the greastest moment inthe history of dredd ever told. you say yourself he has changed, you think we have not noticed?
reprints. we have had this debate and are divided but many of us are comfortable with the current format.
the newer stories have to read and re read, there tends to be plenty of history catching up these days and it takes a few progs to get into some of it.
to be honest if you like things the way they where and not moving forward maybe you should stick with old progs. and 80s music and mimai vice as well. all great stuff, but you have to grow with the changes and understand the greater depth 2000ad has now reached, though there is plenty of light stuff as well. just give a it few weeks and i am sure you will return to the fold.

 

[Tu-plang]

Everything changes, and it's bound to be a shock for someone who stopped reading in the 500s or so as to just how much Dredd has changed.

And reprints are only in the Megazine by the way, and they choose them carefully.  In fact, they're slowly phasing them out, had you noticed?

2000 AD was the best comic in the world.  Then it wasn't. Now it is.

[Devons Daddy]

can not argue with that last comment.

2000 AD was the best comic in the world. Then it wasn't. Now it is.

completely sums it all up really

[paulvonscott]

Yeah but for how long?  I hope it stays this good.  For me it's been pretty mediocre this year until the sin city episodes lit the blue touch paper to prog 1300.  It hasn't been bad, just okay, so 'okay' I want to scream.

Is it going to be great again or is this just a flash in the pan?  I remember a long period in the elder days of Tharg always promising something up ahead, while delivering fuck all at the time.  It's a habit that still goes on today.

2000AD's great at the moment, but moments of greatness do not a great comic make.  I'm dead happy with it at the moment, but I'd be suprised if it didn't sink to having only one or two good strips in by September.

As for the original point, 2000AD's been as good recently as it has in a loooooong time.  It's been a long slow slog as far as I can see to get from burton/mckenzies reign of tat (late 80's/early 90's) to the current okayness of 2000AD.  

MacManus, Bishop, Diggle and Smith seem to have put a lot of effort into turning it around and Rebellion's input hopefully heralds a new age for 2000AD.  I'm not expecting this early 1300 era to be start of a new dawn, but more a slow rise (with a few bumps along the way) to former greatness.

I hope that sounds more realistic than cynical, but I'm happy at the moment, and cautiously optimistic for the future.  I do find it hard to believe that there can be many people who didn't enjoy progs 1300 and 1301.  But then I find lots of things hard to believe.

Cheers :)

Paul

[beta]

Your right about alway promising something but nothing happening. I remember a on off promising a massive war against Sino city in prog 700something. Did this happen while I was away?
The kind of thing I meant- The last Chopper story I read had him racing in Japan, and half way through he had to stop to race through a bowl of noodles, he was racing against sumowrestlers. I know this is 'ironic', but it was absolute crap compared to, say, 'song of the surfer'
Another case- America 2. America was one of the greatest comic stories ever writen. I was almost Shakespearian. AMERICA 2 was a cheap cash-in.
Dave Bishop (is he still at the Megazine?) was once slapped down by readers for insisting that a fall in standards was due to falling readership, and that people had to keep buying to make it any better.

By the way Mr Daddy, I'm too young to remember Miami Vice.

[Pagangirl]

*****Yeah but for how long? I hope it stays this good. For me it's been pretty mediocre this year until the sin city episodes lit the blue touch paper to prog 1300. It hasn't been bad, just okay, so 'okay' I want to scream. ****

To speak as someone who only started reading it a few months ago I think 2000AD is light years ahead of all the US rubbish (Xmen, Superman, JLA  etc).  

I constantly wonder why it doesn't sell as well as they do, maybe it's because WH Smiths and woolworths bury it under the baby comics like beano and the Supermarket news kiosks don't stock it at all!?

So all I have to go on is the current issues and a few of the old books that my libray has in it's graphic novels half shelf.  I think it is superb and I like the pathos in Dredd, it's like he wants to do good but has to settle for doing right.

[Devons Daddy]

fair comments by paul van scott. though i have stayed true through it all, i have to admit we have had our low patches, but never really really bad, just not spectular.
but give it a few weeks and you may well change your views.based on current standards.
to young for miami vice, ok you only started reading from  a later piont i take it then.
the whole output is right back on track in so many ways these days.
the current lien up is the best in so long and the stories have some great depth to them. the otto sump thing was a class tale in the megazine to start with.the return of the VCs and dredd is really getting dodgy these days. hes 58 how much longer we will have to wait for the big one.

[Leigh S]

Beta - can I ask if you've read any progs recently, and what your definition of the Golden age is/was?

Sure, 2000 was the pits for much of the 90's - Ironically, the film drove people away just at the time when Dave Bishop was sloooooooowwwwwwwwwwllllllly turning the prog around after years of complacency and nepotism.

Andy Diggle then took the reigns around the time Rebellion took over, and brought a retro feel back to the prog, aiming for (though not always achieving) an old school vibe by drawing back some old faces (Colin Wilson, Cam Kennedy etc).

At present Alpha IS in the progs - by Wagner and Ezquerra no less, and the run of stories that started in prog 1300 has generally been warmly received as a return to form by even the most hardened cynics - even PVS!

There have been classic Death, Dredd and Stront tales in the past few years, and a concerted, if not always very successful attempts to create new characters to match classic strips.

2000 may never return to a "Golden Age"(though the real Golden Age was very short lived, and usually still had a stinker of a strip running), but currently, the editorial team are doing their damndest to recapture the spirit of 2000 as was - (which I would say was not all bleak - it was often hilarious too)  So, if you have a problem with the progs of the 90's, I'm with you - if you have a problem with current progs that you havent even seen, then you're a bit odd if you don't mind me saying :)

[Blackwood]

Heres my 2 cents on this on-running argument:

I used to read 2000ad every week, I started around 1987 and then bought alot of the older progs. I grew up with Johnny and Rogue like alot of people and as i grew older i still read from time to time.

The early ninties were quite good, some real good stories and characters, colouring and format got better and better. What put me off was the film and then the change of format with 4 different mags and the "vector 13" fad. The photoshop work also seemed like a bad idea because comics shouldnt be like 3D computer animation stills.

I stopped reading 1n 1996/7. but now i hear that they have brought back some old strips and gone "retro". Ive read 1300 and 1301 and i like it.

....Now tell me, what have i missed over the last 6 years that i should read?

[Leigh S]

It difficult - 1212 or 1234 were good jumping on points, with some interesting stuff such as the Deadlock series and Button Man 3 - The ABC Warrioirs run and Satanus are good retro thrills as well, along with the recent "My Name is Death" series by Wagner and Irving.  Necronauts was also around this time - There's also the Kreeler Conspiracy, a great Strontium tale that signalled the return of Alpha, Wagner and Ezquerra - you'll have to go back a little further for that, and if you liked Nemesis, the last book ran from 1165ish to 1173 and the prog 2000 special (good stuff if very rushed).  I personally think Nikolai Dante has been a good if infuriating thrill - other than when its steeped in soft porn, its been consistently thrilling and - a rarity these days - surprising.  Dredd has had some great runs over the last few years - avoid Ennis's Helter Skelter and you should be OK.

[Leigh S]

Oh yeah, I personally feel Dead Ringer has been a massively underrated Dredd 'epic' - its a shame it got cut short - thats in the Megazine Vol 3 from 63 onwards IIRC -  at the moment Titan are concentrating on the dollar rather than the thrill, putting out big name stuff by Ennis rather than the top notch Wagner stuff - hopefully this will change soon.

[Pagangirl]

****surprising. Dredd has had some great runs over the last few years - avoid Ennis's Helter Skelter and you should be OK.****

Don't avoid it, it is a wonderful tale.  It was the story that really got me into 2000ad properly.  It has many great highlights, provides a good basic story and gives a solid grounding to the Dreddverse.  Loved Dredds privileged elite come-back.  The crucifiction scene with all the judges up on crosses was a truly awesome sight.  What's wrong with it?

[Leigh S]

All i can say is horse for courses - to me this story pisses on those characters -  Cal or for that matter any of the returning villains are just not very well characterised - Cal is a hilarious and vicious loon - here he's just a bit of a bully.  Dredd spends half the story driving his bike across the city in a big circle.  It could have been a fairly throwawy tribute to those classics - instead it just parrots names in the hope of gaining some credibility by association, rather than through its own merit.  The other problem I have with this story is the motivation of the villains - to get revenge on someone they've  defeated why would they care? - but lets not start that whole debate again - suffice to say Pagan Girl - if you ever get the chance to read the 1983 Dredd annual, which has a great story that brings back Cal, Rico, Skank  etc., with 1000x more characterisation, humour and plot in 16 pages than Helter Skelters 72.

[Pagangirl]

****if you ever get the chance to read the 1983 Dredd annual, ****

I think that could be why I like it.  I doubt I'll ever see something that far back, most of the Dredd mythology is lost to me there are tonnes of references in the comic to stuff that happened in Dredd's past and as a new reader I don't know anything about them.

Helter Skelter could have been better I admit, but since I had only a very basic knowledge of the Characters before hand I judged it (no pun intended) purely on it's own merits.  It's a newbie friendly story and it does have it's high points, the whole privileged elite bit tells you exactly how Dredd sees hi position, we understad what he is, and as I said the crucifixion scene is breathtaking.  

Like I said, I'll never see these massive backstories and having them alluded to but never explained was annoying, but after that story I understand some of them.  It needed to happen to bring us newbies in.

Plus it was pretty fun.