This Forum

[satchmo]

well obviously 2000AD readers are better than footie fans :) Not Newcastle fans though. We're delusional mentalists!!!
All I meant really was I think most of the people on here are good people, and they mean well and they love 2000AD. Ive been guilty of negative comments in the past, but half the time it was down to being in a bad mood, theres a good few posts I would delete if I had the chance.
The level of dismissiveness(real word?) you talk about is disheartening, but I don't think it's the norm on this board. On youtube, however...:)

[Buttonman]

I'm Stephen Watson of Paisley fame. It was never my intention to hide.

Unlike PJ who could be PJ O'Rourke, PJ Yamas, PJ Harvey, PJ Hogan or one of the many, many other celebrity PJs out there.

BTW Bad Andy Dundee UTD are losing and costing Rangers the league. That and their own 2-0 defeat.

[Funt Solo]

yeah, you're right. Still, I know I'd rather spend my time chatting to people into 2000AD than people into football.

Do football fans ever sing songs insulting one of their own players, during a match?  If so, has the manager ever grabbed hold of a megaphone and shouted something like: "Look, Harry's a professional footballer, and just because he's missed the goal all season there's no need for songs containing that kind of language!  Now, get out of the stadium, and don't come back until you've learnt some manners!  Your season tickets, sorry, opinions, aren't doing this club, or Harry, or the shareholders, any good."

Maybe it was always a bad idea for Rebellion  /2000 AD to host their own customers in such an open way.

On the other hand - they could turn it into a positive by claiming not to be afraid of their fans.

And, of course, Rebellion / 2000 AD could set a better example by not having a column in the Megazine (of old, but still perhaps influential) featuring one of their creators slagging off lots of other creators, and the fans.  Or have that same creator write strips denegrating comic fans. Or publish large expensive tombs like Thrill Power Overload that contains some very candid and negative opinions from creators about some other creators.  Or then there are the candid interviews published in the Megazine.  (Of course, it's subjective: I presume those criticisms have been deemed more worthwhile than the ones that cause a fuss here.)

Still, it's all seeming a bit pot and kettle, now that I think about it.

[paulvonscott]

Frankly, I've never swum in a nicer cesspool.  I love this messageboard and all it's strange people.  

The messageboard may be demoralising for a writer/artist reading the review threads, but if you don't want a frank (and sometimes blunt, sometimes annoying, sometimes pissy) opinion as well as the more well thought out ones, stay well clear.  Just read the selected letters in the prog or what Tharg passes on for the spot varnished truth.

From a readers perspective, I haven't posted any reviews on the board this year because I've been very dissapointed in some of the people who work on the comic and to some degree tired of the abuse. I didn't say I thought X artist was great because I wanted to suck up to him, just as I didn't say Y strip was rubbish because suddenly 'I had a vendetta' against writer Z.  I just wanted to say what I thought and talk about it with fellow readers.

Getting your rants and raves off your chest has to be better than just suffering in silence and dropping the prog because you're fed up.

For what its worth, PJ, I've tried being constructive in my criticism to droids who I know are on the board about their stuff, including you. Filtering out the negative and adding in the positive.  Frankly, I've found its easier just to lie and say it's great or shut up. Otherwise Im made to feel like I've just kicked a puppy or I risk provoking a nobgasm.  Really, I'd like to be able to say what I think on a review thread that will be taken for what it is, by whoever wants to read it.

If someone says something is shit, couldn't the droid just ask them for a more thought out answer and then accept that?  Even if they are saying it's still shit, and here is a list of reasons.   I don't honstly see how they can change people's minds on their work by arguing or berating them though.

If the board goes, it'll be back to reading John Wagner Dredd's in WHSMiths for me.  Sorry, but it was the board that won back my loyalty to the comic.

[mogzilla]

my daughter has some noddy pj's!

[mogzilla]

my daughter has some noddy pj's!

[mogzilla]

...two pairs!

[Roger Godpleton]

I once said that the horse from Second City Blues deserved to die.

[pauljholden]

Must not get sucked in!

Ah, never ever intended to accuse anyone of hiding - pseudonyms are a long held tradition on the internet, in some cases neccessary and, in almost all cases, harmless - but, as I've said a few times now, the two rules in panel and pixel and the engine have made them pleasurable places for fan and pro to mix, and I thought it would've been a nice model for this place too.

Ignoring all the silly alternative PJs, I'm PJ Holden (Paul Jason) who draws for 2000AD, has had food poisoning this week, is expecting his second child in a couple of weeks (well, my wife is) and is a long established fan of 2000AD. I've been here so long I'd sort of forgotten that most people wouldn't assume the PJ is the same PJ as PJ Holden, and will now, go off and correct it.

Also, I don't understand football.

-pj

[Will I. Cooling]

On the whole how 'creators' respond to criticism; my experience has always been that if you have any sort of a profile they'll always be flak heading you're way. Its not nice but there's little that you can do about it. So its best to just take comfort in the old adage its better to be disliked than ignored whilst making sure to search for the nuggets of justified criticism and act on them. If you try and 'confront' you're detractors (which I am sorry to say I did a fair few times on this board regarding my columns for The Nexus) it almost always gets messy.

PJ raises the good point about what the limits are on what is essentially a corporate site. There's no easy answer for that, but it would be a shame for the board to go.

[Dog Deever]

{i}"Let me repeat this, since you may have missed it above: "{/i}

PJ- I could take that in a way which it may or may not have been intended. On first impression, I felt you were tying to belittle me as ignorant or stupid.   Now I haven't done anything ecept give a reason opinion on what is going on. I wasn't involved in the arguement and have to wonder- "what did I do to deserve that?"

I may have picked it up wrong. which illustrates how easy it is to pick up posts wrong. On the other hand. You may well have meant it that way...

[Jim_Campbell]

"Sorry, but it was the board that won back my loyalty to the comic."

I agree about the value of the board. These days, I often feel that my main motivation for reading the prog is that I have something in common with my fellow boarders to drivel on about.

The character of the board is no more or less bad-tempered or critical than it's ever been, so where Matt's "skating on thin ice recently" remark comes from is a mystery to me.

Leave the board alone, or close it down. Neuter it, and I don't want to come here any more. Be assured, however, that I will be cancelling my sub if I lose this board. I fucking love this  board.

OK ... so we're a small number of internet comic geeks that might be insignificant in the scheme of 2000AD's overall readership, but remember that we're also the comic's advocates and evangelists.

We're the ones who will stand up for Judge Dredd down the pub whenever anyone mentions how shit the film was. We're the ones reminding people that, yes, the comic is still going. We're the ones producing fanzines, sneaking onto other people's boards and shoe-horning references to the Galaxy's Greatest in wherever the slightest opportunity arises.

And if we want to be a bit bloody snarky about a strip if we think it's substandard, then why the hell shouldn't we? It's because we care about the damn comic, not because we're trying to score internet discussion board points for a cool put down or to make ourselves look big and clever.

And I'll swear as much as I fucking well like while I'm doing it. As has been so eloquently noted already, 2000AD is not aimed at kids and hasn't been for many years. If it's OK to put swearing up to and including the dreaded F word in the comic itself, then no-one is going to tell me I can't use it here.

Phew. Rant over.

Cheers

Jim

[Jim_Campbell]

And italics off.

All my impassioned rhetoric undermined by a rogue HTML tag.

Dammit.

Jim

[Dog Deever]

{i}"Let me repeat this, since you may have missed it above: "{/i}

PJ- I could take that in a way which it may or may not have been intended. On first impression, I felt you were tying to belittle me as ignorant or stupid.   Now I haven't done anything ecept give a reason opinion on what is going on. I wasn't involved in the arguement and have to wonder- "what did I do to deserve that?"

I may have picked it up wrong. which illustrates how easy it is to pick up posts wrong. On the other hand. You may well have meant it that way...

[Dog Deever]

Well said Jim- Big Brother- fuck off.