SPEED IT UP

[Paul faplad Finch]

Ignoring for a second my apparent terrible taste in Thrills, I have a question. I've never read Third World War as 2000ad was for many years my only comic so forgive my ignorance but is Finn a proper spin off of that series or are you simply speaking of thematic links. I ask because I'd always sort of assumed that it was supposed to be some kind of latter day Slaine reincarnation. I realise I'm probably digging myself in even deeper here but you don't find out if you don't ask.

By the way, is Third World War available in collected form? Maybe reading some of Pats non-2000ad stuff might give me a fresh perspective on him. If not, what else might you all recommend?

[Dandontdare]

I always thought Finn was supposed to be the same character from TWW, but I think it was more of a "reboot" than a straight sequel - TWW had a distinct near-future world story, but this was largely jettisoned  in Finn, I think - wasn't Finn set in a more recognisable present? As I said, my memories of early nineties thrills are a bit..um..patchy  

[Robin Low]

Interesting idea.  Unfortunately I can't remember enough about the character to agree or disagree - blind hate has erased the details!  Had Mills assassinated Hammerstein by then?  I thought that came a bit later - he was still quite an admirable character at the very start of Khronicles of Khaos (which was just before Finn, right?).  And was Nemesis ever anyway nice?

In all honesty, I admit that I'm talking about a general feeling I have rather than a clearly defined progression, so take it all with a hefty pinch of salt.

As for Nemesis, I do think there was a time when he was apparently motivated by a desire protect and save humans and aliens from Torquemada's evil. After his wife and (as far as he knew) child were killed, he understandably got a bit uptight, but I suppose it's in Purity's Story when we discoved he's only been playing games with Torquemada for his own amusement. Unsurprisingly, that's when the series really goes tits up.

Regards

Robin

[Trout]

I saw Finn as a straight sequel.

I really liked Third World War (largely thanks to Carlos' art and the fantastic single-character covers). I did notice the preachiness of it, but it had enough of a story to be properly exciting. Also, he was raising issues which were relevant at the time, and weren't... contaminated by irrelevant obsessions, like dark matter or magic. Or even Magick.

By the time Finn was in the prog, however, I'd started to miss issues. Eventually that developed into several years of not collecting 2000AD. I don't particularly remember Finn from that time, but I strongly suspect it was part of the reason I gave up.

I now own every issue (except one) from the 90s and regard Finn as, by turns, dull and creepy. There are all these predictable, macho fights, clumsy betrayals of the sort Pat seems to stick in everywhere, and soulless casual sex. The prog would have been better off without it, I think.

But it was the 90s, and all sorts of inappropriate stories were appearing as 2000AD tried to work out what it should be. Happily, it now knows - and it includes some good stuff from Pat Mills.

- Trout

[Robin Low]

Ignoring for a second my apparent terrible taste in Thrills, I have a question. I've never read Third World War as 2000ad was for many years my only comic so forgive my ignorance but is Finn a proper spin off of that series or are you simply speaking of thematic links. I ask because I'd always sort of assumed that it was supposed to be some kind of latter day Slaine reincarnation. I realise I'm probably digging myself in even deeper here but you don't find out if you don't ask.

Finn is the same Paul from Third World War, and he was a callous murdering bastard in that too. What was behind the transition from political propaganda to David Icke mentalism, I really don't know. The whole Finn-Slaine reincarnation thing seems to be a minor meme with no basis in either series that I'm aware of - can anyone remember if it was a letter in 2000AD that started it?

By the way, is Third World War available in collected form? Maybe reading some of Pats non-2000ad stuff might give me a fresh perspective on him. If not, what else might you all recommend?

I think some Third World War stuff was collected in a series of thin glossy reprints, but that was years ago.

What would I recommend by Pat Mills? Well...

Judge Dredd: The Cursed Earth
The Rise and Fall of Ro-Jaws and Hammerstein (in the complete Ro-Busters)
Nemesis the Warlock (loses its way at the end, but the vast majority is excellent)
ABC Warriors: the original series and the Black Hole Mission (maybe some of the more recent stuff after the return to Mars)
Marshal law: Fear and Loathing (this is the first series; very little that follows is worth the effort)
Slaine (up to and including The Horned God, then ignoring everything else until the Books of Invasions)
Savage (surprisingly good under the circumstances)

With the exception of Marshal Law, I've not read any of his non-2000AD work.

Regards

Robin

[satchmo]

New Statesmen was reprinted in a series of prestige format comics, I think they did Third World War like that too, IIRC.

[Colin YNWA]

Maybe reading some of Pats non-2000ad stuff might give me a fresh perspective on him. If not, what else might you all recommend?

Without a shadow of a doubt the best non 2000ad Mills stuff (and maybe his best work over all) is Charley's War. Its a work of genius with glorious art and while it has much to say politically it does do so as dogmatically as some of his later work and always remains a thrilling read. Readily available today in nice hardbacked chunks which are well worth the cost, even if some of the reproduction is poor.

[TordelBack]

I should clarify that I'm not lumping TWW in with Finn.  I liked a lot of stuff about Third World War, and while I loved Carlos' art and design in the opening run, I actually rate the later more-serious stuff more highly.  If Pat in his heavy-handed preachy way was trying to engage us in real-world issues, he succeeded in my case - I found myself interested in and reading more about Kenya and the Mau Mau, fair trade and globalisation, Haile Selassie and Ethiopia, and so on.  Unfortunately, Crisis itself was way too expensive for my pocket, and by the time True Faith was running I had lost interest in the rest of the comic, and dropped it (thus missing for all time The New Adventures of Hitler).

[mogzilla]

how do you know?

Us werewolves killed 'em all.

complete and utter b.s. EVERYONE knows  "you cannot  kill what doess not live!

fadlad ,the main bone of contention was the whole "blood of satanus 2 and 3 " thing that some of us vanilla fans found a bit hard to swallow...pat mills in general is a wide and varied creature i like defoe and greysuit but not abc warriors.


..."bone" and "hard to swallow" jokes please!!!

[mogzilla]

...then again,garage man has answered that one already...heh,heh.

[Paul faplad Finch]

I'll check out Martial Law next book run and maybe Charlies War too, which Is actually the only Mills story to have made a realy lasting POSITIVE impression on me. I've actually considered that in the past but the collections, while undeniabley very attractive are also correspondingly expensive. In light of the fact that I've already read much of the early suff in the Meg I've stayed away. Are they worth the expense?

[+rufus+]

Yes....They are.

[BPP]

Defoe is classic 2000A - great individualistic art style, mass violence, silly supporting characters, bonkers dialogue, bounding along at 1000mph. If it said 'Script: Robbie Morrison' you'd have it pinned as Dante1799 (minus the sex granted).

Appreciation of any one strip must come from your like / dislike of both the writer and the artist - block 'hating' of an author who NOBODY can deny has written some fantastic work is simply 'odd'. I can think of Mills things I've not been hugely taken with recently and stuff I've thought was THRILLPOWER personified... but the same with Morrison, Abnett, Ewing, Grant and yes.. even Wagner (been while mind). I've not liked the work of Lee so far but am more than willing to give his forthcoming strips a go.

[I, Cosh]

Ignoring for a second my apparent terrible taste in Thrills, I have a question. I've never read Third World War as 2000ad was for many years my only comic so forgive my ignorance but is Finn a proper spin off of that series or are you simply speaking of thematic links. I ask because I'd always sort of assumed that it was supposed to be some kind of latter day Slaine reincarnation. I realise I'm probably digging myself in even deeper here but you don't find out if you don't ask.

Finn is the same Paul from Third World War, and he was a callous murdering bastard in that too. What was behind the transition from political propaganda to David Icke mentalism, I really don't know. The whole Finn-Slaine reincarnation thing seems to be a minor meme with no basis in either series that I'm aware of - can anyone remember if it was a letter in 2000AD that started it?

I've only ever read the first couple of Finn stories. While it's never explicitly said, the fact that the characters and story share so much of the same worldview and preoccupations makes it seem that, for the writer at least, Finn was merely Slaine transplanted into the modern day. Perhaps some sort of Eternal Champion type framing would've made it more enjoyable, but didn't he basically do that with Slaine's travels through history.

[I, Cosh]

Defoe is classic 2000A - great individualistic art style, mass violence, silly supporting characters, bonkers dialogue, bounding along at 1000mph.

Agree. Love it.