Do Wild animals Commit Suicide.

[ThryllSeekyr]

That isn't to say that they certainly don't put their lives at risk in the pursuit of wild food and competing for mates, dominace and territory, because they do inadvertadly end their lives thsi way. Though I doubt it's their intention or wehter they are awarte of dying. Even if they know pains and injury, I'm not sure if dying is a comprehnsion of theirs.

Sounds silly, I know and perhaps I'm just not guessing right, but the idea of a animal suicide doesn't seem right to me when most of them don't have opposeable thumbs and nopw wondering ablout primates. I'm referring to the hoofed b and clawed beast.

Wild cats. I guess, if they were in a alot of pain. They might leap off a cliff, or climb up tall tre branch overlooking a river and jump off that into the water never to resurface.

My main concern here is the idea of a animal mimicking humans in every way.

I've heard story's pw goldfish would often leap out of the aquarium. Maybe that just curiosity. It's not like they can pass on that information. That the world outside th tan is'n't for them.

Coeurl is a fictional alien race of predators created by the late science fiction novelist A. E. van Vogt (1912-2000) and featured in his first published short story "Black Destroyer" (1939), later incorporated in the novel The Voyage of the Space Beagle (1950). Its resemblance is comparable to a large cat, except that its forelegs are twice as long as its hind legs, and it possesses tentacles (most likely two[citation needed]) attached to its shoulders. These tentacles terminate in suction cups. Its skin coloration is not mentioned, but it may be inferred[original research?] from the title of the story that it is black. It sustains itself by feeding upon a substance it calls the Id of other beings, which is not related to the Freudian concept but is actually organic phosphorus, most probably[original research?] as the phosphate groups bound in ATP.

It appears indifferent to environment and can survive in different atmospheres. It also has the ability to manipulate EM radiation (referred to as "electric vibrations" in the story) at will, and seems to communicate via this method.

In "Black Destroyer", a sentient creature that calls itself Coeurl lives on an alien planet, feeding on the "id" of local creatures. When a human starship (the Space Beagle) arrives on the planet, they find Coeurl but assume it is an unintelligent animal, and even allow it to come onboard. Coeurl realizes it can feed on humans but plays along in order to learn more about them and their ship. Eventually however, it gives in to hunger and kills and feeds on one of the ship's crew. The crew suspects the Coeurl did it, and tries to prove it by feeding him organically-bound phosphorus similar to that in the victim's bones, but Coeurl is smart enough to pass the test. Eventually however, he is found out and tries to escape, but it is no match for the human's technology, and in the end commits suicide.

This is the sceiunce fiction story quoted from the Wiikipdiea. It gave me the idea, above. As you may fathoom. The Cat-like Coeurl. which I am sure is fictious. Is also known as a "Dsipalcer Beast" if your familer with "Dungeons & Dragons" In this story. it commits suicide after beibg found to have murdered and fed on the ID's of some crew menbers of the '" Space beagle" . It struck me just then that the idea of Sentient alien  resembing a well known wld animal... save the extra pair of legs and the pair of tentagles on it's back might looks perculier trying to hang itself or put a firearm to it's own head and pull the trigger, iethal injection, overdose on pills. Perhaps itcould  open the airlock and let the vacum of space take it. It would know about stuff like that being sentient. It might use it's powers of manipluation to force one of the human crew memebrs to do the dirty workt. I had suipposed that they might have tried to kill it themselves. Though I beleive it proved t be too formidable in a upfront fight. So they sent iti awy on a lifebaot vessela and destruyed it when it was a safe distance to do  so. Though it also says ... suicide.

Anyway, I thought it even more perculier that they should let a powefully built creature that was acting dumb at the time, on board. Like it's still resembles a dangerous animal and even more dangerous for  what it was hiding.

To conclude, I thought that this story might make a worth-while episode of Star-Trek. Perhaps Enterprise or Voyagar. I loved to see how they might have one of those things. Even "Red Dwarf" with their exeperinces with the Emo Hawk. The alien that basically did the same thing to them with a tentagle to the forhead. I'd say thats a ID attack if evr I saw one.and apologies to CAT. He might fell soem sort of kin-ship with the cat-like beast. It just happesn that on of the other adventures of the "Space Beagle" that they encountered a race of Dangeorus Bird-like Aliens that were known as RIMM.. Now , what if that was inspration for RIMMER?


BTW, I have done one of these  in PORE, but it's et to be successfully shared.

[Buddy]

Answers on a postcard to the usual address.

[Kerrin]

So if I gave an Otter a small pistol such as a derringer, that it could, at the furthest realms of feasibility operate with it's little furry paws, and ammunition of course. It would blow it's brains out?

I think most wild otters natural instinct would be to find the biggest freakin' fish it could and blow IT'S brains out.

Then eat it.

If it could fire the pistol.

It's a long shot but then I assume the original premise was hypothetical.

Good evening to you.

[House of Usher]

Here's my answer on a postcard: no, I do not believe animals deliberately commit suicide. Fish jump out of aquaria all the time. It is, as you say, out of curiosity. Indoors, aquaria tend to be elevated above floor level. Fish do not know this, and therefore they don't know they won't be able to get back into the aquarium again if they're disappointed with what they find outside. In the wild, fish jump. Whether this is due to just natural exuberance or a genuine desire to explore new territory and thus increase the area over which they might reproduce, I've no idea: however, it is plausible that fish may be motivated to jump out of a pool in the expectation of landing in another better, bigger pool. In the wild, a fish that leaps out of water and onto land can generally flap about until it gets back into water again, since in the wild the land tends to be higher up than the water. With aquaria, that tends to be reversed.

In my reading I stopped short of the stuff about phosphate-eaters in A.E. Van Vogt, so I can't comment on that. I'm guessing the Coeurl is a being with near-human intelligence and therefore smarter than any earth wild animal. But I don't know.

[Roger Godpleton]

Is this a cry for help?

[Kerrin]

Naaahhh.

Do you think an octopus could successfully garrote itself with a cheese wire without passing out and having to release the tension thus allowing itself to regain consciousness. Or, would the inherent elasticity of it's tentacles cause it to carry on cheese wiring itself to death even after it's sparko? Something to bear in mind while considering this conundrum is that some octopii are reckoned to possess the intelligence of a reasonably bright dog. Or a medium sized giant squid.

[Peter Wolf]

"Though I doubt it's their intention or wehter they are awarte of dying. Even if they know pains and injury, I'm not sure if dying is a comprehnsion of theirs."

I think death is within their comprehension as they like us have a survival instinct which they wouldnt have if there wasnt an awareness of death.Theres plenty of factual evidence that proves animals are not just mindless automatons with no awareness if you care to look for it.

They can also sense death if you notice the behaviour of animals before they are slaughtered.

There is also evidence that certain species do commit suicide in the sense that one pack or pride member etc will place itself in deliberate danger to save or protect the other members of its pack etc but its still motivated by survival rather than an urge to end its own life.

[House of Usher]

I don't think animals can comprehend death. Their survival instinct has more to do with the avoidance of pain. Animals have been observed to mourn, but that doesn't mean they understand death; their mourning is easily explained as a reaction to loss of companionship. Animals can tell whether another animal is animate or inanimate (although they may be fooled by lures), but that doesn't mean they can imagine or anticipate their own inanimate/deceased state.

[M.I.K.]

//http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8209

[Devons Daddy]

not sure
but you do get higher mammals that are believed by some to do so,
whales , if they lose there mate. have a tendancy to either beach or swim into ships paths.
not proven, but plenty of cases have been noted.

likely not enough reasearch into such incidents, how would you begin.
scientist, he looks a bit blue
sailor, he is a whale! he is blue!

not an easy thing to notice is it.
though apparently related in a way, it has been found, animal groups have homosexual members. big cats being quite common.
thats a thought in the same vien i would suggest.

[TordelBack]

I don't think animals can comprehend death.

Speaking as an animal, I'd have to agree.

The decision to commit suicide is a response to the impulse to escape from pain (physical or emotional) or threat of same.  Responding to that impulse by deciding to end your own life rather than just running away requires a pretty complex mental model of the world and your options within it, one that I suspect non-humans lack. It's worth noting that far too many of us experience flaws in this cognitive model that lead us to believe that suicide is a rational, even inevitable, response.

[Richmond Clements]

I love this board.

[ThryllSeekyr]

Answers on a postcard to the usual address

Whats that about, or is this your equally confusing responce to another one of my confusing threads.

Is this a cry for help?

Not yet. I'm not that far gone.

I just thought it was a amusing concept. Though, I have also admit it's abit sick too.

I don't think animals can comprehend death. Their survival instinct has more to do with the avoidance of pain. Animals have been observed to mourn, but that doesn't mean they understand death; their mourning is easily explained as a reaction to loss of companionship. Animals can tell whether another animal is animate or inanimate (although they may be fooled by lures), but that doesn't mean they can imagine or anticipate their own inanimate/deceased state.

I was thinking the same thing and not really knowing how I could word this as well. As I recalled reading the beginning  of "2001 Space Oddessy" . First chapter and the y were going about how the ape-like protagonist was treating the death of it's parent. Not what I would usalley think, but they were barely human themsleves. I think they were on the cusp of that much awareness  family and friends. Of why that body smelt different and wasn't moving any more. Just before the strange balck monlith prompted him to pick up the thigh bone.

I hear a funny stories about Horses as well. In fact, I once read a book called " The Wild" authored by Witley Strieber ( The same  fellwo who wrote "Communion") about Lycanthropy. This fellow changes into a wolf, and soon joins a pack of real wolves lead by a female alpha. During the time she went on HEAT. Her pheromones, drove the rest of the pack into sexual frenzy, and it turned out that there were more male wolves then females. So there were some same sex pairings. It was sort of made clear that this paring off is totally random and soon forgtten afterwards like it never happned. The point that was being made here was that noe of those wolves were for what ever passes for knowing wether they were gay or straght in the first place. it's just that they were all aroused and didn't care . Only ones that resulted in actual births are evr remembered anyway.

Speaking as an animal, I'd have to agree.

I have to agree we are all animals.

Though I now realise that planning for suicide is what I believe separates us from the more beastial variety.

Sad to say that though.

My next topic is animal terroism, and homicide.

Can they be as dangerous as our own human terroists?.

[Roger Godpleton]

This would all go a lot smoother if you would just admit you're not a real person.

[Proudhuff]

GP, now you see why he's the mayor?