1645 - The House Of Bones

[TordelBack]

The scone/scone thing has always mystified me.  I've heard both 'sk-own' and 'sk-on' identified as being posh-as-fuck on different occasions.  Long-but-single-syllable o's tend to be considered posh over here, so it should be simple, but it ain't. 

Happily, the two-syllable version 'Skoh-won' at least is definitively skangtastic.

[locustsofdeath!]

In the States, we are turly United in pronouncing it 'sk-own'...but then again, not one of us could possibly be considered posh.

[House of Usher]

Lovely Prog, 8/10. Not much needs to be said about it, but...

1) Defoe: best thing in it. It's a super-duper load of old cobblers! So the Vizards are pissed off that the Zombie Hunters killed the Diabolonians so easily. Was that Pat's plan all along? He sure gave them a big build up only for the Zombie Hunters to 'just shoot them'. Defoe as Marshal Law. Pat has had so many digs at superheroes over the years. He really doesn't like them, does he? They all just want shooting, eh? I liked the gentle spoofing of the comic book convention that guys with enough super power to rip each other's heads off, with their bare hands, instead have epic battles only for the loser to escape to come back another day and wreak worse havok. How many lives might Batman have saved if he'd just murdered The Joker years ago? He could've claimed self-defence. Was Defoe as Pat's mouthpiece saying to the reader "ha! see what I did? you thought I was going to drag out that superhero zombie lark, but I didn't. your expectations. i have confounded them" ?

2) Judge Dredd: second best thing in it. So totally off the wall.

3) Sinister Dexter: third best thing in it.

4) Tharg's Terror Tales: very jolly, and beautifully drawn. We need more Chris Weston back in the Progs, preferably drawing Indigo Prime. The plotting and pacing was pure 2000ad, the writing was just a touch... small press. Ouch! Sorry, C.W. As an aside, 'that' book club isn't really as evil in real life. The way you play it is to consider the value of the initial offer (the one where I could've got £150 worth of books I wanted for just £12 was pretty good), buy 4 more books as per the terms of the contract, selecting either more books you actually wanted or just go for the cheapest on offer, then cancel your membership. Voila: £150 worth of books ends up costing you about £45. More could've been made of Vaz (Deferens? No, sorry; that was a different thread) having signed in blood - some dots were left there for the reader to join up.

5) The Red Seas: oh dear, oh dear. How many pages just to see Isaac Newton knock a door and get abducted by a robot with telescoping arms and stilt legs? Also you can't have 'not a single solitary friend in the world, except one'. Please bring back the pirates ASAP.

[ThryllSeekyr]

Having read of this Prog over at 2000AD Reveiw and your comment on thsi thread.

The subject of Chris Weston's (Who looks abit like Tim Roth) submisson....

Tharg's Terror Tales

Well, I interests mainly because while I haven't joined any sci/fi book clubs, I have still incountered numerous other problems from buying anything 2000Ad related over the counter.

It sounds like the type of story raise my hackles. The idea of being tricked into buying leftovers.

I only wonder who the real devil is? but before you answer that question. I might just buy myself this prog in a few weeks time.

The new Mutie badge. Very enticing.

But the thing that could really screw me up is internet fraud. As I use Ebay quite alot. They say that it and PAY PAL are very safe, but there's always a hacker is greedier and cleverer.

I know my version different but just reading that struck a nerve.

On the subject of this Prog. Are there two version or two different covers?

[TordelBack]

This was a prog that rewarded several re-reads over the weekend!  Defoe in particular sent me scurrying off to wikipedia to refresh my very patchy knowledge of Restoration characters - and what a treat that was.  Mills has presented the cream of the 1660's double-crossers, spies, propagandists and traitors as his possible Mene Tekel.  I'm not quite sure what Aphra Behn is doing there, and I'm even less sure how she managed to get born in Dutch Guiana, but I'm prepared to play along.  Now genuinely interested  in who's the baddy!  My guess is Doctor Busby.  Look at his piggy little eyes, read about his conviction for child molestation, note how he's in charge of the superhe...errr, Vizards.  He's a wrong'un.

[planetoid]

Defoe is one of Mills' best stories in years but I fear it's a bit directionless storywise. We're up to book three and we still don't know what the bad guys want with the reeks. If you compare Defoe to Mills' Nemesis saga - there's no clear plot. Nemesis was about an alien fighting the evil humans. Torquemada wanted to wipe out all aliens. The plot was clear, it was established in book one. Defoe doesn't have any real plot other than lots of zombies to kill. Perhaps La Voisin or Mene Tekel will explain why they value the zombies, explain what they're trying to achieve?

Zombies in themselves don't do much except kill people and increase their rank but it's unclear if Tekel wants to create a necropolis (city of the dead). I do think Defoe is superb, an incredibly detailed story with amazing art but their doesn't seem much point to it. We've had almost 30 parts of Defoe and there's been no explanation why Tekel or Voisin want to control England with undead zombies. Every villain needs motivation - and it usually comes down to power. But what does Tekel get from ruling an undead Britain?

Perhaps Pat should focus on the main plot - is there a real plot to Defoe besides reek killing?

[TordelBack]

I know what you mean Planetoid, but I do think the structure is slowly emerging.  There's no one plot because there's three strands playing out:  an overall supernatural catastrophe that created the reeks, and the whys and wherefores of that (was someone or something responsible?); the endless 17th C struggle with the various powers of the Continent, augmented by the supernatural elements and agents (of which La Voisin and Mene Tekel are the principals);  the internal conflicts of Restoration England.  We're gradually seeing the scheme from the ground level up (Defoe's POV), rather than a simple overview, and I rather like that.

Oh, and welcome!

[Dark Jimbo]

I side with Tord on this. Obviously Tekel and La Voisin have a scheme - it's just that we don't know what it is yet. Nobody in Defoe's world does, except the titular villians, so all they can do is deal with the fallout in the meantime as best they can.

I have every confidence that it'll read fine in the (eventual) complete collected editions - a slow-burn story arc that starts as a simple enough 'zombie incursion' then builds gradually into something far more.

[planetoid]

We're gradually seeing the scheme from the ground level up (Defoe's POV), rather than a simple overview, and I rather like that.

You make a great point. Defoe is like a jigsaw where each week you get another piece of the story and it's slowly forming the whole picture. But as mentioned, I'm a little unclear if there is a clearly defined point to the story. I wonder if Tharg or Mills came up with the idea of a zombie killing story and that was more or less it? Defoe has amazing attention to detail, Mills cannot be accused of underwriting it, but I do wonder if zombie stories have little point other than to show zombies killing people?

Judge Death is the ultimate zombie - an undead entity - but Wagner came up with the genius idea of giving Death a defined agenda: Judge Death believes all life is a crime so it must be wiped out. As it stands, Defoe hasn't given us the villain(s)' agenda. I'm not sure what Mene Tekel gets out of controlling zombies. I've brought this up because we're halfway though book three and I guess there's only so many times you can show Defoe killing zombies, Defoe meeting new characters, before it gets a tad repetitive. I don't think Defoe is boring, I'm loving it, but it's possible some readers may think it's one idea stretched out over three books.

I'd love the end of book three to be Mene Tekel revealing himself/herself and saying "my plan is.... blah blah blah and not even you, Defoe, can stop me!" I think that would add a new dimension to the story.

Thanks for the welcome.  

[TordelBack]

But as mentioned, I'm a little unclear if there is a clearly defined point to the story.

This is always the risk with Pat Mills!  As often remarked, some of Mills' work seems to follow the 'keep piling it on until some sticks' approach to world building and plot development.  But sometimes he knows just where he wants to go.

For example, for a long time I felt that the whole time-travel business introduced in Slaíne: Time Killer was crudely slapped on to pad out the story, or to indulge Pat's interest of the day - from the first panel it just seemed so incongruous, with 'leyser' guns, aliens, sonic weapons  and flying suits.  But I was wrong - there it is, in the very first page of the very first story, The Time Monster, and then there it is again in the Bellardinelli Clontarf Annual story.  He knew he wanted dark Lovercraft/R.A.Wilson/Von Daniken ancient aliens pulling the strings of his Celtic dreamtime from deep upstream, for Danu versus the Drunes to be revealed as just one theatre of an eternal conflict, and ultimately for Slough Feg and Slaine to just be two sides of the one coin.  I may not like it, but it's there in the background from the very beginning.

FWIW I don't think Mene Tekel is interested in controlling an undead England - I think he's using the reeks and their variants as weapons in an Anglo-Dutch (and maybe Anglo-French) War, possibly itself part of a greater struggle between scientific/occult powers of both nations, of which the summoning of the 1666 comet was the opening salvo.  Remember that 'Mene Tekel' is a divine riddle, the 'writing on the wall', that only the prophet Daniel can unravel for Belshazar.  It prophesises the conquest and division of Babylon by Persia and the Darius the Mede (and we know how fond Mills is of Britain as Babylon).  Just throwing it out there, but in reality 'Defoe' is a made-up name adopted by one Daniel Foe, future writer of Robinson Crusoe - and you can be sure Mills knows it.  Sadly for my purposes, Daniel Defoe is still only a kid in 1668, but he is lurking about London somewhere, assuming he hasn't been already abducted by the gong farmer.

[planetoid]

FWIW I don't think Mene Tekel is interested in controlling an undead England - I think he's using the reeks and their variants as weapons in an Anglo-Dutch (and maybe Anglo-French) War, possibly itself part of a greater struggle between scientific/occult powers of both nations, of which the summoning of the 1666 comet was the opening salvo.  Remember that 'Mene Tekel' is a divine riddle, the 'writing on the wall', that only the prophet Daniel can unravel for Belshazar.  It prophesises the conquest and division of Babylon by Persia and the Darius the Mede (and we know how fond Mills is of Britain as Babylon).  Just throwing it out there, but in reality 'Defoe' is a made-up name adopted by one Daniel Foe, future writer of Robinson Crusoe - and you can be sure Mills knows it.  Sadly for my purposes, Daniel Defoe is still only a kid in 1668, but he is lurking about London somewhere, assuming he hasn't been already abducted by the gong farmer.

You're not Pat Mills in disguise?  

Could Defoe just be his name and not have any deeper meaning? Perhaps Mills liked the name.

I wonder if Pat works it all out prior to book one or just makes it up as he goes along? He sticks so much in Defoe it's not easy to remember everything. I completely forgot Ipswich was the heart of the evil. Poor Ipswich. I wonder if Pat Mills once took a trip to Ipswich, was desperate to answer the call of nature, only to discover all the loos in the town were vandalised. Years later he said to himself "if I ever write a zombie story I'm gonna curse that town and its evil public conveniences."  

[ThryllSeekyr]

He knew he wanted dark Lovercraft/R.A.Wilson/Von Daniken ancient aliens pulling the strings of his Celtic dreamtime from deep upstream,

I like your wording....

I completely forgot Ipswich was the heart of the evil. Poor Ipswich. I wonder if Pat Mills once took a trip to Ipswich, was desperate to answer the call of nature, only to discover all the loos in the town were vandalised.

The name Ipswich rings a bell, because live there, but only in part of the world. I know there are several Ipswichs and the Defoe version is defintely not mine, or...... is it?

Perhaps all Ipswichs are conncted andc orss over somewhere. Sort of like those blue Police Boxs. They are everywhere also. That could be how the Tardis works.

On the subject of Tharg's Terror Tales.

Who exactly is Alex or Alec Tench?

I read about him here in this reveiw thread.

[planetoid]

Alex Trench was a disgruntled script droid.  Created by Alan Grant:

"Alex Trench was a character I used in a couple of Tharg's Future Shocks for 2000AD; he was based on the ice-cream van driver in the village I hail from," he reveals.

He appeared in a Tharg story back in the early 1980s. If I recall, he wanted to write stories a certain way and Tharg disapproved. I have some vague memory he fell out of the command module and died. RIP Mr Trench.   His name is associated with wannabe/failed writers.

[locustsofdeath!]

Now, be patient with me, because until last year I hadn't read 2000AD since the mid-730s...am I correct that this is the third Defoe arc? If so, does anyone know offhand which Progs the other two (or however many) appeared in? I am enjoying this strip immensely, mostly because of the art and the zany characters, and would like to read more. However, judging from this discussion, I haven't missed much! Cheers!

[planetoid]

am I correct that this is the third Defoe arc? Now, be patient with me, because until last year I hadn't read 2000AD since the mid-730s...am I correct that this is the third Defoe arc? If so, does anyone know offhand which Progs the other two (or however many) appeared in?

Yes, third book. Rebellion have recently released the first Defoe graphic novel reprint:

http://www.ekmpowershop2.com/ekmps/shops/2000ad/defoe---1666-xb356-361-p.asp

As mentioned, the book contains volumes one and two of the saga.

Book 1: 1666 (2000AD progs 1540-1549)

Book 2: BRETHREN OF THE NIGHT (2000AD progs 1589-1598)

I would recommend reading books one and two before reading the current book because Defoe has a lot of backstory and characters. I've read all the books and still forget some of the characters.