Wind Farm

[Delingpole]

The sci-fi geek in me loves wind turbines.

But every other particle of me hates them with a vengeance. They're expensive, they're a blight on our beautiful landscape, they kill birds, they require vast amounts of concrete make, they energy needed to make them alone will never be replaced by the energy they produce... oh, and they don't work.

But then I'm part of the much villified and hated AGW denying group.

[WoD]

OK...point me in the direction of something to back up these facts...

But every other particle of me hates them with a vengeance. They're expensive, they're a blight on our beautiful landscape, they kill birds, they require vast amounts of concrete make, they energy needed to make them alone will never be replaced by the energy they produce... oh, and they don't work.

Genuinely interested in learning a bit more about it.

[Colin YNWA]

Here's a few facts from the other perspective dispelling "myths about wind energy"

http://www.bwea.com/energy/myths.html

For the sake of transparency this is from a organisation promoting the development of renewable energy sources BUT the claims are backed up and sources referenced.

[WoD]

Thanks Colin.  I'll wait for the other side of the debate now.

[TordelBack]

.. they energy needed to make them alone will never be replaced by the energy they produce...

This simply isn't true, except in the sense that in a closed system this is true of everything.  Happily the system isn't closed on a medium scale.  If anyone has figures that actually back this claim up, please present them, I'd be fascinated. 

True, wind power is very inefficient, but this is an annoying argument that's been used against almost all forms of energy production that don't relying on harvesting a fossil resource where time has already done most of the energy conversion for you.  That's much more efficient, but sadly unfeasible.  The problem with wind is always one of matching variable supply and variable demand schedules, hence my own technically-ignorant preference for more predictable tidal power.  However, there's no reason that wind can't provide a significant contribution to energy needs on a sub-regional scale- look at Crete, for example.   Windpower contributes relatively little to the Greek energy budget as a whole, but on Crete it's over 30%.  Ditto Spain and Gran Canaria.  Averaging contribution out across countries with regionally variable wind supply isn't the way to look at - it's different strokes.

[WoD]

.. they energy needed to make them alone will never be replaced by the energy they produce...

It was this statement (and the bird killing one) which made me wonder about the source material that was being quoted.  Both do not make sense to me but I'm happy to be educated...

[Richmond Clements]

The bird killing arguement baffles me somewhat (as do the others for different reasons). DO they kill more birds than, for example, aircraft or domestic cars?

When this thread was started I bounded to it in excitement, hoping for a good old arguement about windfarms the the benifit thereof (I should point out that my day job is in recycling and renewable energy), and was disappointed there wasn't one there- and now it has arrived, it's at the end of what has been a long week and I can't muster up the (wind) energy!

[Odd_Bloke]

When this thread was started I bounded to it in excitement, hoping for a good old arguement about windfarms the the benifit thereof (I should point out that my day job is in recycling and renewable energy), and was disappointed there wasn't one there- and now it has arrived, it's at the end of what has been a long week and I can't muster up the (wind) energy!

That must be really winding you up.

[Colin YNWA]

From the linkie I posted

"Myth: Wind farms kill birds

Fact: The RSPB stated in its 2004 information leaflet Wind farms and birds¹³, that "in the UK, we have not so far witnessed any major adverse effects on birds associated with wind farms". Wind farms are always subject to an Environmental Impact Assessment and BWEA members follow the industry's Best Practice Guidelines and work closely with organisations such as English Nature and the RSPB to ensure that wind farm design and layout does not interfere with sensitive species or wildlife designated sites. Moreover, a recent report published in the journal Nature confirmed that the greatest threat to bird populations in the UK is climate change¹⁴"

[Bouwel]

From myth #5:
The UK's transmission system already operates with enough back-up to manage the instantaneous loss of a large power station

Just as well as it's going to have to cope with the loss of the Wylfa Magnox nuclear power station when it stops generating at the end of this year. No, there's nothing been built to replace it.

Not a great fan (no pun intended) of wind-turbines since they've started sprouting out of the sea off Llandudno. I am willing to have my mind changed about them if some independently objective report is available. I know the above site lists its sources but the devil is always in the details etc. etc.

-Bouwel-
(Just off to pop the kettle on...swing up turbine #342, Bob!)

[TordelBack]

For a fun look at the future of renewable energy, check out Cheeseburger Brown's excellent story The Bikes of New York. 

http://cheeseburgerbrown.com/stories/The_Bikes_of_New_York.html

[Mikey]

The bird/windfarm thing isn't necessarily bird strike, but the locations where the farms are generally located on land are upland sites, which are important for many raptor species and their prey, so loss of habitat and disturbance during construction may be significant indirect impacts.

I've heard of people wanting to place turbines in karst areas (formed from solution of limestone by water). Increased run off anyone? I'm no engineer, but bloody hell-caves you fools!

The turbines always remind me of Pavane by Keith Roberts- where long distance communication is done through massive semaphore stations.

M