I don't understand the appeal of...

[Mike Gloady]

Never quite got the idea of being on a scene.  I like visitiing gigs, going to clubs and all kinds of music - a spot of goth/punk/post punk/ebm/industrial/metal/dance/future pop and other on-topic-drift genres, but loads of other stuff.  I have a particular fetish for northern soul and funk at the moment.  Could never feel like I wanted to limit my music to just one genre or era.

Wow, that's a post on BOTH topics.

[House of Usher]

That doesnt sound like the kind of Naive or folk art that i have seen.I like folk/naive art in the traditional sense if its paintings and furniture and ceramics and it often sells for big money if its 19th century or older.

I see what you mean. I didn't mean in the sense of art done by non-artists; I mean the sort of art that's done deliberately, intended as art, by people who have never formally learnt a technique or given a thought to theory. People who just announce 'I'm an artist' and start scrunching up balls of newspaper and slopping paint about. I had a wander around the Tate in St. Ives once. Some of the untutored daubings by very collectable local artists (naive in the 'proper' sense) are quite depressing.

[House of Usher]

I suspect the actual conclusions were more along the lines of, 'Parents: don't worry about about your oddly dressed offspring - they are actually quite bright, sociable, get a half decent education and end up doing better than a significant portion of their less imaginative and less thoughtful contemporaries who are more into Kylie.'

I found the report you were thinking of. There was an article in the Independent in 2006 about Dunja Brill, who was writing her PhD thesis on goths. I don't think she did a statistical survey; more likely she was doing the sort of ethnographic study where you get hold of a bunch of people to interview and then you snowball your sample, getting them to introduce you to their friends and interviewing them too. As such, it all sounds very anecdotal. Her conclusions, which appear sound, can be summed up as "goths value education, they are not especially prone to dropping out of study, and as such they have the same chance of a stab at a professional occupation as anybody else."

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/dont-mock-goths-futures-bright-for-the-men-and-women-in-black-470765.html

Incidentally, I wouldn't knock anyone for being more into Kylie. Nothing wrong with that! I think being remotely interested in the doings of Katie Price and Cheryl Cole are more reliable predictors of under-achievement.

[Mike Gloady]

Precisely.

Non-achievers tend to obsess about OTHER non-achievers.  The thicker the better so the idiot in question isn't made to feel stupid (i.e. confronted with reality).

[Peter Wolf]

I see what you mean. I didn't mean in the sense of art done by non-artists; I mean the sort of art that's done deliberately, intended as art, by people who have never formally learnt a technique or given a thought to theory. People who just announce 'I'm an artist' and start scrunching up balls of newspaper and slopping paint about. I had a wander around the Tate in St. Ives once. Some of the untutored daubings by very collectable local artists (naive in the 'proper' sense) are quite depressing.

I see what you mean as well.I went past the Phoenix Gallery [Brighton] yesterday in a car but i noticed the window displays and it looked like the sort of thing you would see in a primary school or a playgroup as it looked like the result of childs activity class.

[wild-seven]

Ush, TB: Agreed in SPADES. 

I feel like a phillistine (small "p", don't want to offend anyone) for not getting it, but I really don't.  And Twitter seems so pointless as to be almost a joke.  I already have a FB account, can't justify joining ANOTHER social network that I can't see the attraction to. 

Most people's tweets consist of nothing more informative than 'DONE A POO!!! LOOOOOOL!!!!' - that's a cultural high point right there...

[Robin Low]

I found the report you were thinking of.

Out of curiosity, how did you track it down? I had a brief google, but quickly gave up.

Her conclusions, which appear sound, can be summed up as "goths value education, they are not especially prone to dropping out of study, and as such they have the same chance of a stab at a professional occupation as anybody else."

Fair enough. Just goes to show how important it is to look at the actual source.

Incidentally, I wouldn't knock anyone for being more into Kylie. Nothing wrong with that! I think being remotely interested in the doings of Katie Price and Cheryl Cole are more reliable predictors of under-achievement.

Kylie was just the first bit of bland tat that sprang to mind, but I'm happy to concede to your alternatives.

Regards

Robin

[House of Usher]

Out of curiosity, how did you track it down? I had a brief google, but quickly gave up

My google search was 'goths get good jobs.' That simple! 

Kylie was just the first bit of bland tat that sprang to mind, but I'm happy to concede to your alternatives.

Danielle Lloyd sprung to mind the moment I'd settled on Cheryl Cole. 

[TordelBack]

Danielle Lloyd sprung to mind the moment I'd settled on Cheryl Tweedy. 

Fixed that for you.  Don't you read any gossip mags?   

[Mike Gloady]

I'd only gotten used to calling her Cheryl Cole. 

Can I just say "the chav in a posh dress off x factor?" please.  Everyone'll know who I mean.

[The Monarch]

"The chav in the posh dress from the x factor who can't sing live"

sounds much better

[Mike Gloady]

I know someone who worked in the studio they recorded their first album in.  The amount of auto tune on EACH VOCAL TRACK is disgusting.  Apparently it was very much needed.  So she can barely sing in a studio either. 

Hence her dislike of doing it live.  Although these days autotune tech is used in live performances too.

[The Monarch]

It sickens me it really does

[Mike Gloady]

Just because most people have voices and you've got a bit of technique, passion or a pleasing tone it DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN SING.  Pitch.  It takes work, but pays dividends.  And those technologies can be imperfect.  For example, while singing live Cheryl would be unable to improvise or deviate at ALL from a very pinned-down performance plan because otherwise the person playing the auto tune will be dragging her into the pitch he THINKS she's going for, and the nearer you are, the better it works. 

Apart from anything else it really ought to be a matter of pride.  YET ANOTHER THREAD-DRIFT I've precided over.  Hurray!  Go me.  Apologies.

[Taryn Tailz]

I really hate it when people mime on stage. I certainly wouldnt go to a gig and expect to see a band mime.

If you cant play live then whats the point.