This weeks Strontium Dog

[Mark Taylor]

You're all missing the point, Wagner is "gerrymadering" the timeline so that Johnny doesn't turn out gay.

It won't work. We all saw him kiss Judge Dredd.

[Dog Deever]

and weakest when it's Dad's Mutant Army...

Have you ever watched Dad's Army?

Jovis, this thread has turned into a moronic octopus since I last looked.
Fixed this for you RAC...

and weakest when it's Dad's Mutant Army...

Have you ever watched Dad's Army?
Have you ever read Strontium Dog?

Seriously. If he doesn't like all of those 'other' elements, then he isn't an SD fan- he just likes one or two of the later stories.
Right from the early days of Starlord- Stront had all that division between the norms and the mutants built in. Just because the politics aren't done in an early-Ennis hamfisted, square-peg-round-hole fashion doesn't mean they weren't there.
Of course, he'd know that if he'd read them.

[JOE SOAP]

You're all missing the point, Wagner is "gerrymadering" the timeline so that Johnny doesn't turn out gay.

It won't work. We all saw him kiss Judge Dredd.

Dreams don't count.

[Jim_Campbell]

Seriously. If he doesn't like all of those 'other' elements, then he isn't an SD fan- he just likes one or two of the later stories.

I refer the Honourable Gentleman to my previous comment on this very subject.

I think there is a version of Strontium Dog in [jamesedwards'] head that connects only tangentially with the version everyone else is reading.

Cheers!

Jim

[Mark Taylor]

You're all missing the point, Wagner is "gerrymadering" the timeline so that Johnny doesn't turn out gay.

It won't work. We all saw him kiss Judge Dredd.

Dreams don't count.

Seriously, don't even joke about the whole dream thing. McNulty could wake up all dazed and confused at the end of this and say "Jings! It wuz aw jist a dream!"

[HOO-HAA]

C to Z-listers on the other hand are a dome a dozen - why bring someone like Hornet back when you can just create a new version from scratch?

I don't think that Marvel can help themselves, though. Remember when The Punisher blew up that bar with all the c-z lister supervillans in it, chilling and chatting over the bad-ol-days? I think it was during the Civil War era and it worked really well for the story.  

Anyway, not one of them had a legitimate reason to come back. Not one of them! Yet, a few issues later, as I recall, lo and behold we find that they all crawled out afterwards with scrapes on their faces, A-Team style.

What's the feckin point!?  

[Radbacker]

I don't think that Marvel can help themselves, though. Remember when The Punisher blew up that bar with all the c-z lister supervillans in it, chilling and chatting over the bad-ol-days? I think it was during the Civil War era and it worked really well for the story. 

Anyway, not one of them had a legitimate reason to come back. Not one of them! Yet, a few issues later, as I recall, lo and behold we find that they all crawled out afterwards with scrapes on their faces, A-Team style.

What's the feckin point!?   

but Stiltman stayed dead and he was important!

CU Radbacker

[I, Cosh]

This thread's going to make a terrible mess of my boxroom as I dig out all these stories to re-read them!

That's why you need Case Files!

[jamesedwards]

and weakest when it's Dad's Mutant Army...

Have you ever watched Dad's Army?

Jovis, this thread has turned into a moronic octopus since I last looked.
Fixed this for you RAC...

and weakest when it's Dad's Mutant Army...

Have you ever watched Dad's Army?
Have you ever read Strontium Dog?

Seriously. If he doesn't like all of those 'other' elements, then he isn't an SD fan- he just likes one or two of the later stories.
Right from the early days of Starlord- Stront had all that division between the norms and the mutants built in. Just because the politics aren't done in an early-Ennis hamfisted, square-peg-round-hole fashion doesn't mean they weren't there.
Of course, he'd know that if he'd read them.

Hey, I've actually enjoyed how robust this thread has been but this rude post has really pissed me off. Don't feel like you can tell me what the value is in something I enjoy, don't tell me I can't be a fan of something because my views don't match your own. My relationship with the work is for myself to define.

While this board might very well have a majority of users who started in the 1970s or 1980s some of us started in the 1990s. Some of us came to comic books in the era of post-Alan Moore naturalistic dialogue rather than the dramatic exposition style popular previously and that is our preference

And don't tell me I had to be alive to read Starlord to be a true fan! Don't even pretend you have the authority to decide what a true fan is! I like Stront, therefore I am a fan. I dislike some stories and certain aspects, therefore I am a critical fan.

Pretty offensive stuff to be told, really.

[Aaron A Aardvark]

but Stiltman stayed dead and he was important!

Stiltman? How does the ability to walk on really long wooden legs help him take over the world?

I'm glad I don't read comics.

[jamesedwards]

In reading the thread previously something about jamesedwards's whole take on this thing struck me as just plain, downright wrong, and at the time of my previous response to him I could quite put my finger on it. Then it struck me... somebody who considers "the future should differ in some significant way from the present" to be an arbitrary genre limitation for futuristic fiction and at that same time disparages "pointless sci-fi window dressing" is actually painting themselves into a corner.

Simply put, if you portray a fictional future which does not differ in any significant way from the setting, you've just rendered the entire futuristic setting "pointless sci-fi window dressing".

Woah woah woah no. There's a difference between allegory and window dressing. Monsters and Portrait of a Mutant are both allegories, for example (PoaM being a satire and protest against the British far right, Monsters being a satire and protest against British Military action). At the same time both function as components of a long running space opera. Alpha is bound for the stars and Feral is evolving into a more bestial form.

Your definition of sci-fi is arbitrary. All genre distinctions are arbitrary and creatively pointless because stories exist to be read, not filed into the appropriate box. Plenty of sci-fi exists that depicts relatively minor increases in computer technology, weapons technology or biotechnology. In contrast, Monsters depicts the British character to be largely unchanged in spite of the advent of FTL travel, massive biological changes and an interstellar empire. I don't know what you'd expect Ennis to add further than that because everything he needs to tell his story is right there - anything anyone adds to Monsters (maybe aliens or some sort of exotic energy weapons is what you were expecting) would exist in surplus and thus become window dressing.

If you want to tell a story about what's going on in the present and do so in a pretty direct way, I'd argue that a sci-fi setting (established or otherwise) is not the best vehicle for this. To do it effectively in sci-fi you need to be a touch less direct and a bit more subtle.

Sci-Fi is a stylistic choice.  Bruce Stirling once wrote something to the effect that sci-fi writers get to say whatever they want about something, because they're commonly perceived as jesterly losers (if anyone cares to seek it out, it's the foreword to William Gibson's Burning Chrome.  A perfect vehicle to sneak points of view in under the radar or speak in fables.

I think there's still a bit of a double standard here - early Stront racists were as subtle as a brick to the face and acted almost exactly like BNP skinheads/racist cops/wild west lynch mobs/Nazis. Portrait of a Mutant is Nazi Germany with a relatively happy ending for the Jews in much the same way Monsters is a metaphor for Northern Ireland/the Prauge Spring (in Return of the Gronk). Early Stront - Wagner Stront - does all the same stuff you're giving Ennis grief for. Monsters was one of three major stories Ennis wrote and they all got increasingly fantastical after that.

[Jim_Campbell]

Don't even pretend you have the authority to decide what a true fan is! I like Stront, therefore I am a fan. I dislike some stories and certain aspects, therefore I am a critical fan.

To be honest, you've been the one that's taken a very narrow slice of a much larger body of material and insisted on applying that narrow slice as the standard against which the rest of the work must be judged, and found that work wanting.

You are the one who's accused John Wagner of writing fanfic; who has made some fairly heavy criticisms of Wagner's writing, and have proved strangely reticent to acknowledge, at the very least, that you might be holding a minority viewpoint here.

Although your actual posting style is different, I should point out that you could substitute "Judge Dredd" for "Strontium Dog" in most of your posts to this thread, and and you'd sound like Scojo. That's not an accusation, that's an observation that should pull you up short about both your argument and your debating style.

I'm surprised, to be honest, that no-one's laid into you before.

Cheers

Jim

[jamesedwards]

To be honest, you've been the one that's taken a very narrow slice of a much larger body of material and insisted on applying that narrow slice as the standard against which the rest of the work must be judged, and found that work wanting.

A perfectly valid way to retroactively assess serial comics fiction, man - I've seen it used with regard to the X-Men, Superman, Batman and all kinds of comic stuff.

You are the one who's accused John Wagner of writing fanfic; who has made some fairly heavy criticisms of Wagner's writing, and have proved strangely reticent to acknowledge, at the very least, that you might be holding a minority viewpoint here.

I said it felt like fanfic and I didn't really feel like considering it authentic Strontium Dog when compared to the 15 years old stories it retcons - my opinion. I have made some criticisms of the quality of the writing in this particular strip because I don't feel it's very good. The size of my gang vs the size of your gang is completely irrelevant because this isn't a poll and I'm not going to creep around subserviently with a sign on my head saying "don't mind me - I'm only a minority opinion!" I think that's all fairly reasonable.

Although your actual posting style is different, I should point out that you could substitute "Judge Dredd" for "Strontium Dog" in most of your posts to this thread, and and you'd sound like Scojo. That's not an accusation, that's an observation that should pull you up short about both your argument and your debating style.

I'm sorry, but that's an extremely unpleasant and unfair comparison to make. The guy is  mentally ill and wants to be tyrant of reality. I'm offering an opinion.

I'm surprised, to be honest, that no-one's laid into you before.

"Quick guys - he has something negative to say about modern 2000ad! Hold him down while I do over his ribs!" Is this what we've come to?

FYI I've had people telling me I can't possibly like Strontium Dog, that I have incorrect opinions and comparing me to Scojo because I made a joke... I just want to talk about the strip and the history of the strip like an adult, you know?

[Jim_Campbell]

Sigh. Plonk.

[James Stacey]

There is an excellent review of this weeks S/D over at colsmi's blog.
http://thatremindsmeofthis.blogspot.com/2010/08/falling-in-love-again-absent-emotions.html

I was going to construct an argument about how the current story is far from fanfic and firmly in the Arsom area of thrillpower, but that link provides a much better argument and more eloquently.