HOBBIT CASTING

[TordelBack]

As Smaug is the whole reason for the story ...

Ah but is he, even in the book?  The objective is actually Thorin reclaiming Erebor, and the effect that quest has on the balance of power in north-eastern Middle Earth is a big concern of the book, and more so in the film(s).  Smaug is the most memorable obstacle (and one [spoiler]the heroes themselves don't even overcome[/spoiler]), but a lot of the book's lasting appeal, and indeed the seeds of the more complex world of LotR, come from what happens afterwards.  What happens when you achieve your dream, and what will you do to hold on to it?

[James Stacey]

The white council subplot comes from one of the appendixes of Lotro where Gandalf explains that his reason for taking part in the Dwarves quest was to ensure that Smaug was out of the picture so Sauron couldn't ally with him. So yeah Smaug is the central point of the books and films. The battle of five armies will no doubt be extended to tortuous lengths (as was the escape from Goblin Town) as its a cool battle and people like battles. It's inclusion in the hobbit really feels like another case of Tolkien not really knowing when to stop telling his story.

[TordelBack]

. So yeah Smaug is the central point of the books and films.

Yeah, but the key question is why use Thorin, Bilbo and the dwarves to do this (i.e. the story of The Hobbit)?  Why not use some other ruse to draw Smaug out?  My (dim and distant) recollection from Unfinished Tales was that Gandalf was keen on strengthening a bulwark of the free peoples against the Necromancer retaking his seat at Angmar, and restoring Erebor to dwarven hands and repopulating the lands around Esgaroth was the key to his plan.

Taking out Smaug as a potential ally of Sauron is a meta-objective alluded to in the appendices etc, certainly, but in the book itself, the quest is to retake Erebor, and the story (aside from Bilbo's development) is about Thorin's quest and what follows from it.  Smaug is just one aspect of that quest, and it's after that objective is achieved (by someone else)  that the book confounds expectations, friends become foes, heroes die, and the story becomes much richer than a kid's book has a right to be. [spoiler]Thorin's [/spoiler]deathbed is my abiding memory of my first encounter with the story, not the[spoiler] largely off-screen defeat of Smaug by some guy[/spoiler].

[Beaky Smoochies]

The white council subplot comes from one of the appendixes of Lotro where Gandalf explains that his reason for taking part in the Dwarves quest was to ensure that Smaug was out of the picture so Sauron couldn't ally with him.

Was that specifically mentioned in the Return of the King appendices, I don't remember reading that particular point in there?

As I recall, that was written by Tolkien after the fact, in fact, quite long after the fact; The Hobbit was published in the 1930's but that particular line from Gandalf didn't appear in print until Tolkien's posthumously published Unfinished Tales in 1980... but if I'm wrong I stand corrected!  This could also explain why in the new film adaptation Gandalf clearly does not yet know that [spoiler]the Necromancer is a re-emergent Sauron[/spoiler], something he will obviously discover at a later point.  Peter Jackson and co will not and indeed CANNOT use this plot point because they don't have the rights to the aforementioned Unfinished Tales, and considering what a crotchety old git Tolkien's son Christopher is (he virtually disowned his own son for giving the thumbs-up to Jackson's adaptation), the chances are between zero and absolute zero they would be granted these rights had they pursued them, meaning they can't use Gandalf's aforementioned tactic in the new films short of a (further) lawsuit from the Tolkien estate.

Despite being a good 20 minutes too long, I've come to enjoy An Unexpected Journey a lot more than on my first viewing, and I'm looking forward to The Desolation of Smaug a great deal considering the material they have to work with on this one... and I too think this one will end with [spoiler]the showdown with the aforementioned Smaug over Lake Town [/spoiler]which is both a logical and suitably climactic point to end the upcoming second installment, and leading nicely into There and Back Again (the third and final installment) wherein the emotional, personal, and political aftermath of that climactic event will be the main driving narrative, leading up to the [spoiler]Battle of Five Armies[/spoiler] and most probably the [spoiler]siege of Dol Guldor[/spoiler]... in other words, still a lot to look forward to!

[James Stacey]

I could well be mistaken and its in Unfinished Tales. Ill confess its been years since I read it. Some good points made. I'm oddly less excited about this one too. I was counting the days to the release of the LotR films but the first Hobbit just felt like more of the same, ticking off plot points. Maybe it's because I'm older, or the Hobbit is just less exciting.

[radiator]

For me it's because the first one just didn't hang together as a film. It was too long, too indulgent, the effects looked fake, and it entirely lacked the heart and grit of the LotR films. Far, far too much pandering to existing fans of the franchise, which became downright distracting.

And the soundtrack sucked.

[JOE SOAP]

This could also explain why in the new film adaptation Gandalf clearly does not yet know that [spoiler]the Necromancer is a re-emergent Sauron[/spoiler], something he will obviously discover at a later point...Peter Jackson and co will not and indeed CANNOT use this plot point because they don't have the rights to the aforementioned Unfinished Tales

I think it's pretty heavily implied Gandalf (like Alan Moore) knows or at least suspects the score and he explicitly states that he does not want Smaug to side with the enemy.

[Jimmy Baker's Assistant]

It's inclusion in the hobbit really feels like another case of Tolkien not really knowing when to stop telling his story.

Far from being annoyed at the level of detail Tolkien used, I only wish there was more...

[Goaty]

New trailer

http://youtu.be/TeGb5XGk2U0

[TordelBack]

New trailer

http://youtu.be/TeGb5XGk2U0

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

[Jimmy Baker's Assistant]

Looks good to me.

I don't even mind Legolas being in most of the shots, and I was genuinely happy to see Sylvester McCoy back.

[JOE SOAP]

The Hobbit II: Legolas gets his oats.

[Beaky Smoochies]

I think it's pretty heavily implied Gandalf (like Alan Moore) knows or at least suspects the score and he explicitly states that he does not want Smaug to side with the enemy.

You're right about that Joe, Gandalf clearly suspects something sinister is afoot in the supposedly-abandoned old fortress by Mirkwood... but only after Radaghast draws his attention to it, and certainly after the latter wizard shows the Nazgul blade recovered during an encounter in that ruined fortress.  But I don't think at this stage, he's aware or even suspicious that it's [spoiler]a re-emergent Sauron[/spoiler], at least on a conscious level.

That teaser trailer is a thing of beauty, yes the digital imagery is more noticeable and prominent inn this adaptation, but a good story is a good story, and The Hobbit  is an exceptional and enduring story, so I'm hoping for the best on this one...

[TordelBack]

Too deep we delved here, and woke the nameless fear.

[Zarjazzer]

That, my lad, was a dragon.