An indie comic mini rant

Steven Denton · 06 January, 2011, 02:18:57 PM

The whole Kickstarter thing is new to me. I can see how a pro (and I define a pro as someone who's sole income is being a freelance creator) could use this kind of thing to get a creator owned project off the ground, even an artist has to eat.
It does draw sharply into focus how thin the line between pro and small press is though. Except from the very top of the game (where the core idea is developed and sold as a cross platform property with associated brand recognition)

comics has become a bit of a minority cottage industry in America and the UK) Canvassing for investors is nothing new; Dragons Den is probably the most popular example of pitching your ideas to backers. Kickstarter projects aren't offering a slice of the equity but a chance for fans to become part of a comic. A small press creator has to have the necessary skills to produce a comic, a lot of time to push it, and a little bit money to print it, but a backer only needs a little bit of money.

(Wild non-specific generalisation) The small press is full of fantasists some well meaning and some with massive egos, many of whom think they are the new Alan Moore or Grant Morrison or Ashley Wood. I think there is an argument for pro Kicksarter projects looking so 'achievable' that any delusional or dreamer thinks 'I could do that; I could be one of the big boys.'

Emperor · 06 January, 2011, 03:19:23 PM

Also worth noting that Kickstarter get all the press but you can't start a project with them without a US bank account and you need to hit a target to get the cash. Indie GoGo is international and lets you keep whatever you raise, so it might be a better option and it stops the desperate last minute pleas of people trying to hit a specific target (which can be the real pain with Kickstarter, you can safely ignore the first request but then all the "nearly there" messages can try a saint's patience):

www.indiegogo.com

Quote from: Steven Denton on 06 January, 2011, 02:18:57 PM
The whole Kickstarter thing is new to me. I can see how a pro (and I define a pro as someone who's sole income is being a freelance creator) could use this kind of thing to get a creator owned project off the ground, even an artist has to eat.

Indeed. If you were a pro trying to produce a graphic novel and you don't get an advance to keep you in Smarties and energy drinks then this would also be a solid option.

That said serialisation is an important aspects even if you are aiming for a trade later on as it allows you to start covering costs and getting the comics out there early, so make sure you are making the best use of the available publishing opportunities.

Also worth bearing in mind that some publishers will give advances for creator-owned comic book mini-series (Vertigo and Image that I've discovered) but they may be looking for a greater cut of the profits from sales and/or a slice of any future adaptations. Granted you might want to keep all the pie for yourself but it might be a better option than raising money on Kickstarter. It is, after all, how indie filmmakers have funded films in the past - speak to rich dentists and the like and get some cash out of them in return for a return on any profits.

My worry is too many people are jumping on the Kickstarter option when there might be better ways of doing this. Then again if you can get a comic book project paid for up-front it has to be a big help.

Daveycandlish · 07 January, 2011, 07:10:44 AM

I use UKomics for the regular PARAGONcomic and lulu.com for the booksize Jikan Chronicles, and have been impressed by both services

Richmond Clements · 07 January, 2011, 10:01:50 AM

I don't mind the idea of prepaying for a book- like with the post-Insomnia one, but asking someone to pay you what amounts to their wages as they produce whatever book they have in mind is another thing...

Bolt-01 · 07 January, 2011, 10:28:52 AM

Another thing to consider when looking at these is track record. Will it actually get made?

I've been let down quite a few times by well intentioned artists who never deliver a strip, so I'm well aware that the best laid plans can go awry.

I know that I'm loathe to take money from folk up front for our comics- my reason being that I might decide that I've just had enough and kick it all into touch. If folk have actualy paid for comics up front then I 'have' to deliver. But that is just me...

NeilFord · 07 January, 2011, 11:15:18 AM

Quote from: Bolt-01 on 07 January, 2011, 10:28:52 AM
I've been let down quite a few times by well intentioned artists who never deliver a strip, so I'm well aware that the best laid plans can go awry.

A fair point, but I quite liked Stevens analogy of the Dragon's Den for patrons of comic art - I guess sensible souls would only back projects they really believed in or creators they wanted to support?

Bolt-01 · 07 January, 2011, 11:26:06 AM

Neil- exactly, if you are asked to help back a project for a creator you believe in with a track record of actually delivering- and you want to pay up front- then go for it.

Personally I'd rather purchase actual product, but each to their own.

Jim_Campbell · 07 January, 2011, 11:32:45 AM

With Kickstarter, unless I'm very much mistaken, you make the pledge, which is effectively a pre-order, but they don't take the money until the total amount has been raised, meaning that the entire print run is financed. If they don't get enough pre-orders to cover the run, the run doesn't happen and no-one pays anything.

I'm pretty sure the Kickstarter deal is supposed to include a publication date, so I'd imagine that if the book didn't appear on the specified date, you'd pursue Amazon, who manage the payments, for a refund of your contribution.

Cheers

Jim

bluemeanie · 07 January, 2011, 12:24:35 PM

But who needs more than £200 for an initial run?

Its not the type of cash I have to throw around by ANY stretch, but if I had an issue one to put out I think I could scrape it together in the 5 or 6 months it'd probably take for the project to go from idea to being ready to print.

This is single issue comics of course. Trades are a different thing, but again if you're starting out then surely the model is single issues first to finance the trade.

And again, most of these guys are like me. Its a cool thing to do but its not their living. Its a glorified hobby. They're doing it to say "I have a book out" not to feed the kids.

But....having said all that if there was a book I was interested in I'd probably be cool pledging to buy a copy if its greenlit, tho I'd much prefer to pick one up at a convention. Im not cool with giving double the cost or even just a donation, probably because 3/4 of my facebook "friends" are amateur comic monkeys who would all like me to pay for their print costs but arent arrogant enough to assume I should.

Jim_Campbell · 07 January, 2011, 12:48:39 PM

Quote from: bluemeanie on 07 January, 2011, 12:24:35 PM
And again, most of these guys are like me. Its a cool thing to do but its not their living. Its a glorified hobby. They're doing it to say "I have a book out" not to feed the kids.

Not sure I agree. Punting a couple of hundred quid to print a run of a single issue that you spend the next five years lugging to conventions and selling three copies of at a time is all very well, but if you can use the internet to drum up, say, 500 firm sales before you even go to print? That seems to me almost the opposite of vanity publishing...

I do, however, entirely take your point about inflating the price unnecessarily with high gloss paper, hard covers, and all the rest. That, I think, probably is vanity...

Cheers

Jim

locustsofdeath! · 07 January, 2011, 01:01:10 PM

I think a big part of the annoyance stems from the fact that these are people doing the same thing you're doing - but they're asking YOU for money for THEIR project when, hell, if you were going to put money towards a comic you'd put it towards your own! Probably a big mistake for a creator to ask for donations from another creator on the same level, being that 1) as I've stated, you'd first use that money to further your own projects and 2) you know that the cash being raised is way more than needed!

bluemeanie · 07 January, 2011, 01:11:55 PM

lol... yeah, its all bitterness

After the crash and burn of Insomnia I have a completed graphic novel gathering dust and WISH I was a big enough c**t to expect other people to pay for me to get it printed

Bolt-01 · 07 January, 2011, 02:47:38 PM

Meanie- have you thought of Lulu for this? Print on demand for each sale- put a sample chapter up on a blog...

bluemeanie · 07 January, 2011, 02:55:07 PM

Quote from: Bolt-01 on 07 January, 2011, 02:47:38 PM
Meanie- have you thought of Lulu for this? Print on demand for each sale- put a sample chapter up on a blog...

Yeah, we threw a few ideas like that around mate but artist wasnt 100% keen on self publishing, mainly as we're both miserable sods who hated the thought of sitting at a con table having to.... I hate even saying it.... having to.. TALK to people!

Eventually gone for an offer from Markosia who are gonna do it digitally with hard copies if it proves popular. Worst case we get it back in a year and print it ourselves, hopefully with a bit more credibility as an already published(ish) book.

We'll do something with it. Arrogant as it sounds its pretty cool so not gonna let it go to waste.

NeilFord · 07 January, 2011, 03:04:54 PM

...was going to suggest just that, Although I'd be tempted to serialise it like Freakangels, all for free on the web - then offer a POD hard back superduper whiz bang collected edition at the end or a PDF home print for slightly less?

There's a chap down Wales who wrote a super wee web design book and released it as a pdf for £7.00 or so, he made £30K in a couple of weeks! He's got a nice little online press now, brilliant idea IMHO. Different area of course, but demonstrates the scaling power of the web if folk like your work.

http://fivesimplesteps.com/