Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace

[TordelBack]

It's been said that Lucas has been taking more of an interest in Clone Wars as the series has developed, and I'm assuming it's this that is inexorably sucking every last ounce of fun out of the series. Banking deregulation? Seriously, George?

There's more than a grain of truth to this, and the endless Senate episodes that dogged the first half of Season 3 certainly support this view, but now we are through them (we have been assured) it's clear that they've done a lot to deepen the story and rather heavy-handedly drive some points home.  The negative reaction from online fandom is enough to suggest to me that some of these points (which I had previously taken as read) really needed to be made over and over again. 

Leaving aside George's dubious attempts to put forward his views on US politics and how they relate to foreign policy in a kids' cartoon, it has hopefully finally been made clear that the Clone Wars are not the battle of good versus evil that so many people still seem to want them to be.  That battle is being fought at the level of individuals, and I don't think anything in any of the films has ever suggested otherwise. 

The current stuff is great action-packed fun again, and joys like the aforementioned Sy Snootles episode give me much hope for the future.

[Richmond Clements]

hopefully finally been made clear that the Clone Wars are not the battle of good versus evil that so many people still seem to want them to be. 

People don't get that??
One of my joys of the prequels was in weatching them with and through the eyes of my youngest. I was never as proud of him when he, aged 8, was able to figure that Anakin does what he does for all the right reasons- he thinks he is doing the right thing, and that he's not really a 'bad guy'.

[radiator]

It's been said that Lucas has been taking more of an interest in Clone Wars as the series has developed, and I'm assuming it's this that is inexorably sucking every last ounce of fun out of the series. Banking deregulation? Seriously, George?

Bah.

Well, you've got to admit, it would be a lot of fun to be in his position and set about completely ruining something you created that so many people hold dear, ignoring all the protests...

I always imagined (and I'm sure it must have crossed her mind, too) what would happen if JK Rowling had suddenly, at the last minute, just decided not to write The Deathly Hallows and simply leave Harry Potter unfinished - her only explanation being "I can't be arsed". Just imagine the public outcry! Must be fun to wield that kind of power over the public's imagination!

[TordelBack]

I always imagined (and I'm sure it must have crossed her mind, too) what would happen if JK Rowling had suddenly, at the last minute, just decided not to write The Deathly Hallows and simply leave Harry Potter unfinished - her only explanation being "I can't be arsed". Just imagine the public outcry! Must be fun to wield that kind of power over the public's imagination!

Isn't that the plot of Unwritten?

[locustsofdeath!]

Again, it all seems so slapdash - the constant changing, tinkering, adding, deleting, retconning, refurbishing, refitting (and a gazillion other '"re's") - and I have to wonder how much of a 'vision' for Star Wars he's actually ever had.

Even if we give him the OT, allowing that he didn't have the technology to do what he wanted with it back then - what about the PT? How many changes has he made to those? I suspect it's because he worked, as so many others have said, from a first draft.

Either that, or he's just off his rocker.

[TordelBack]

Anakin does what he does for all the right reasons- he thinks he is doing the right thing, and that he's not really a 'bad guy'.

Not wanting to cast nasturtiums on your son's moral compass, but isn't that the definition of a bad guy?  

And Locusts:

...and I have to wonder how much of a 'vision' for Star Wars he's actually ever had.

I've never read anything to suggest that he had more than "Akira Kurasawa's film of Fall of the Roman Empire meets Dune, but Flash Gordon saves the day" written at the front of a notebook that otherwise contained a few funky made-up names based on friends and places and something about  laser swords and twins.  

But so what, the kids love it (and so do I).

[radiator]

I have to wonder how much of a 'vision' for Star Wars he's actually ever had.

It's always been entirely obvious to me that there was never was any particular plan for a series of films - the 'Episode IV' tagline at the beginning of the first movie was simply an affectation, there to give the impression that Star Wars was some sort of lost lost serial adventure that we were only seeing a strand of.

I don't believe for a second that Lucas ever originally intended to actually film episodes 1-3, no matter how much he claims that is the case.

[TordelBack]

hopefully finally been made clear that the Clone Wars are not the battle of good versus evil that so many people still seem to want them to be.  

People don't get that??

(Sorry for so many posts - in full-on displacement mode today, dealing with the Revenue.)  

To expand, no, many of the online community (it's the only one I know) still want the Separatists to be e-e-e-evil and the Republic to be good, and get really, really irrate when TCW shows neutral or pacifist planets ("how could they turn their back on teh Republic?  Cowards!"), or Separatist governments that just want to break free of Republic corruption but are terrorised into believing noble Count Dooku's claims that the droid armies are their protection against Republic aggression, or even a Republic Senate that allows arms manufacturers to sell to the enemy ("how could that happen?  seriously?").  

Recent attempts to make it absolutely plain that the self-same Sith Lord presides over an utterly corrupt Republic Senate and a similarly misguided secessionist Confederation are horribly crude and heavy-handed, but I think they need to be.  This is nothing new - after seeing how manipulative, dishonest and utterly wrong Ben and Yoda were in the OT, people were still outraged to see a cold superior Jedi Order fucking up big-style in the prequels.  Fans have their own ideas of what they want Star Wars to be, largely unconnected to what it is or ever was.  But again, so what.

EDIT:

It's always been entirely obvious to me that there was never was any particular plan for a series of films - the 'Episode IV' tagline at the beginning of the first movie was simply an affectation, there to give the impression that Star Wars was some sort of lost lost serial adventure that we were only seeing a strand of.

And indeed 'Episode IV' was only added on the film's re-release, as you say, to heighten the feel of a Saturday morning serial.  I agree completely, cutting down a sprawling unwieldy treatment into a (superb) filmable movie is not the same as having a 9-film story mapped out.

[klute]

.

I have to wonder how much of a 'vision' for Star Wars he's actually ever had.

It's always been entirely obvious to me that there was never was any particular plan for a series of films - the 'Episode IV' tagline at the beginning of the first movie was simply an affectation, there to give the impression that Star Wars was some sort of lost lost serial adventure that we were only seeing a strand of.

I don't believe for a second that Lucas ever originally intended to actually film episodes 1-3, no matter how much he claims that is the case.

I still wonder why the big gap between the first three and the last three

[Jim_Campbell]

Well, you've got to admit, it would be a lot of fun to be in his position and set about completely ruining something you created that so many people hold dear, ignoring all the protests...

The thing is, I don't hold it dear. I'm broadly "meh" on Star Wars, but I liked the Clone Wars series because it didn't seem to be carrying the weight of all Lucas' stodgy ideological baggage, and if it tied into continuity in any meaningful way, I certainly didn't have any problem following the stories in blissful ignorance of all that stuff.

Above all, the series, whilst a little juvenile, brought with it a breezy sense of fun so dismally lacking from any of the prequels. Given that Lucas reportedly had little or no hand in the first series, it's hard not to make a connection between these two facts, particularly when his supposedly increased involvement has seen that sense of fun gradually ebb away.

The current Ventris episode wasn't bad, so I'm hoping the back end of the series will pick up...

Cheers

Jim

[Goaty]

I still wonder why the big gap between the first three and the last three

That would be Star Wars Unleashed!

[TordelBack]

Above all, the series, whilst a little juvenile, brought with it a breezy sense of fun so dismally lacking from any of the prequels. Given that Lucas reportedly had little or no hand in the first series, it's hard not to make a connection between these two facts, particularly when his supposedly increased involvement has seen that sense of fun gradually ebb away.

True, true, but it does make me a little uneasy watching a large section of the fan community being full-on flag-wavers for Our Boys in White (who are taken as simply supplanting the Rebel Alliance in our affections), when they are/will be the brainwashwd slaves who enforce the will of a dictatorship, so I'm not going to complain if some efforts are made to clear up the morality of this most amoral of conflicts.  

That said, I think I've only re-watched 5 or 6 of the 12 episodes of Season 3 with my son, so dubious have I been about his likely level of interest.  And that's a Bad Thing.

[Spaceghost]

Why are people saying that it's a good thing that neither side is evil? Surely that's a bad thing from the point of view of audience sympathies. Perhaps in a complex and mature study of the horror and futility of war it would be positive, but in a film with a backwards talking, little green elf who can read minds? No, we need baddies please.

Furthermore, I still say none of episode 1 makes any sense. Who are the trade federation? Why do they have a blockade round Naboo? What is Sidious' plan? What possible reason can there be for targeting queen Amidala when she isn't actually a real queen and is just serving a term. If there are no baddies, why are we shown merciless, heavily armed battle droids butchering hapless Gungans? What's all that shit about the decoy queen?

It's all a load of crap!

Sorry Tordelback, I offended you earlier and didn't mean to, I just hate these stupid, dissapointing films so very, very much.

[TordelBack]

It's all a load of crap!

There's no disputing that!  I could explain all those things to you, but if you didn't get them from the film (which you clearly know quite well, and have thought about), then the film really hasn't done its job as a film.  It's this failure to get its (quite clever) plot across on the screen which I think is the real failing in the execution of TPM, and goes far beyond the things that popularly divide the audience, like Jar Jar, Jake Lloyd and bloody Greg Proops.

And there's no need to apologise Lee, I certainly didn't take any offence and very seldom do, especially in a frivolous thread about my malformed love - I was just asserting my right not to be generalised!

[Professor Bear]

Not to cause a tangent or anything, but is there any way to ratify the cartoon version of Clone Wars with the CG version?  They seem to offer contrary explanations for Grievus' wheezing in ROTS, and I'm still unsure if the skinny androgynous one from the 'toon is the bald lass from the CGI show.

And while we're on the subject of CW, those banking deregulation episodes were a bit like Lucas set out to make something akin to the Simpsons parody of TPM where an AT-AT smashes into the Senate building and then starts filling out a tax form.  I really do think at this point there is a possibility he's doing it deliberately.