“Truth? You can't handle the truth!”

[The Legendary Shark]

But you see, Jim, that's not what the policy says,  is it? The policy actually says that people suffering from certain mental conditions should not be allowed to drive. The policy points to the WHO's list of mental disorders, which happens to include... Ah, what's the point? You've obviously made up your mind and jumped to your own hysterical conclusions.
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If you want to believe I'm anti-vaccinations and pro-LGBT discrimination then you go right ahead, I can't stop you. I get the impression that if I were to say "people with broken arms or legs shouldn't drive" you'd interpret that as me discriminating against people with skeletons.
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What if someone has gender-reassignment surgery and is banned from driving until their sliced-into sexy parts have stopped hurting, would that be anti-gay too? Probably yes, in Jim's World.
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Did you miss the part where I said; "Leaving aside the morality of lumping homosexuality and paedophilia together (many people all around the world mistakenly do this, not just in Russia but the UK, EU, US, etc. as well), this Russian law is an attempt to protect children from undue sexual influence. It may be a clumsy and ham-fisted attempt but is not, I think, deliberately anti-gay. Again, it's the western media falling over itself to demonise Russia by magnifying and distorting its flaws." Or did you simply ignore what I said in order to do some demonising of your own?
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I believe consenting adults should be able to marry irrespective of their sexuality - our government and churches do not. I believe a person's sexuality is just a small part of their whole being and, so long as nobody gets hurt, they can hang out of whomever they like. I don't care if people are LGBT or S; it makes no difference to me.
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The point of my last post was to demonstrate the skewed and hysterical nature of western "news" reporting, which you seem to find perfectly acceptable. In Saudi Arabia, for example, the penalty for homosexuality is death. Yet the media skirts around this and instead chooses to blather on about a skewed version of Russia's anti-gay laws. A quick (90 second) perusal of Google reveals that Moscow has a thriving, if somewhat subdued/hidden, gay scene. Sure, Russian attitudes on homosexuality are still behind the times but both you and I were born into a country where the homosexual act was illegal. You could go to prison for it. Our country has moved on from that (largely), and a good thing too, but Russia's still struggling with it. Pull them up on real discrimination by all means - but don't just condemn the entire country on some half-baked and distorted rubbish.
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I'm sure there are ill-informed idiots in the rest of the world who look at our own appalling record on paedophilia and believe everyone from the UK is a child abuser and that the exploitation and rape of children is UK Government policy.
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[JayzusB.Christ]

Pull them up on real discrimination by all means - but don't just condemn the entire country on some half-baked and distorted rubbish.

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I know you're not homophobic, Sharky, but I don't think anyone on the board has condemned the entire country.  All I've seen so far here are condemnations of the Russian government's anti-homosexual policies.  Surely I'm allowed to condemn another country's discriminatory laws - it doesn't mean I think my country's government is perfect either (it really, really isn't).

[Hawkmumbler]

Slave: I am oppressed and not treated equally. Here, i'm bleeding due to physical assault you allowed on my person by not enforcing anti-discrimination laws.

Slaver: Source?

[Jim_Campbell]

But you see, Jim, that's not what the policy says,  is it? The policy actually says that people suffering from certain mental conditions should not be allowed to drive. The policy points to the WHO's list of mental disorders, which happens to include... Ah, what's the point? You've obviously made up your mind and jumped to your own hysterical conclusions.

You concede that being transsexual is on the list of "mental conditions" that preclude people from driving. The WHO doesn't say that being transsexual is a bar to driving, the Russian legislation does.

What if someone has gender-reassignment surgery and is banned from driving until their sliced-into sexy parts have stopped hurting, would that be anti-gay too? Probably yes, in Jim's World.

That is the most outrageous non-sequiteur. There is no equivalence between those two things and your attempt to connect them is either rank stupidity or flagrant trolling.

While I'm at it:

Leaving aside the morality of lumping homosexuality and paedophilia together (many people all around the world mistakenly do this[...])

1) Leaving aside?! You don't get to leave that aside. It's the point of the legislation. If you're not conflating homosexuality and paedophilia, then there's no reason to 'protect' children from homosexuality.

2) "Many people" in the world hold ugly, wrong-headed beliefs. Many people are racists and anti-semites, that doesn't make it OK to codify those prejudices into law. Doing so legitimises and emboldens those holding those views when any civilised nation should be doing precisely the opposite.

You shouldn't need this explaining to you.

Jim

[Professor Bear]

I don't think anyone on the board has condemned the entire country.

A shocking oversight when you consider every last inch of Russia is fucking shit.

[IndigoPrime]

It may be a clumsy and ham-fisted attempt but is not, I think, deliberately anti-gay.

Apart from, as JPMaybe noted, specifically stating that anything defining homosexuality as normal within society is outlawed. The Russian law is the most blatant type of discrimination around. This isn't poor reporting. This isn't looking at another society's news reporting and exaggerating. This is the policy the country has in place, which is seriously hurting a great many people.

As for your other points, I don't get them. What does the West's habit of ignoring appalling Saudi law have to do with Russian law also being appalling?

As for:

I'm sure there are ill-informed idiots in the rest of the world who look at our own appalling record on paedophilia and believe everyone from the UK is a child abuser and that the exploitation and rape of children is UK Government policy.

Seriously? There is no bloody equivalent here. There have been some truly awful acts perpetrated by certain members of society, and there may well have been cover ups, but these things are not placed in law. A bad or even terrible record is one thing, but actually enshrining in law defining an underclass and not allowing people to live their lives in an open fashion is just appalling. This isn't magnifying or distorting anything, any more than saying women are repressed in Saudi Arabia.

[ZenArcade]

Jeez Bear, Russia covers a huge amount of different climate and time zones and is hugely under populated. My guess is most of it is stunningly beautiful. It's just we never get to see the good bits. Z

[The Legendary Shark]

Jim, allow me to post the following links again for your perusal:
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www.themoscowtimes.com/article/514313.html
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mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0KN23220150114?irpc=932
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These posts were both made on January 14th this year, after which it seems the mainstream media quietly let their hysterical rhetoric drop - with no word of clarification. (I'm prepared to be wrong on this but I can't find the allegations repeated after this date, nor can I find any clarifications after this date either. Thus, the rhetoric remains on record as "fact" despite its wildly skewed nature.) In short, the Russian legislation does not bar transsexuals from driving merely for being transsexual.
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You're right - there is no equivalence between the two, just as there is no equivalence between being transsexual and not being allowed to drive in Russia. Nor is there any equivalence between making a(n admittedly extreme) point to demonstrate the foolishness of the western media's perspective and trolling.
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1) Yes, I do get to leave that aside because I'm talking about facts and not morality. If you want me to comment on the morality of sexual discrimination of any kind then here it is: Leaving aside the obvious sexual discrimination leading to segregated male/female changing rooms/toilets/etc. (ha, ha), the overwhelming majority of all sexual discrimination is both wrong and damaging to societies and individuals.
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2) I agree. That's not my argument though - and if you read what I've written in a calm and logical manner, you shouldn't need this explaining to you either.
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[The Legendary Shark]

JBC - you're correct; nobody on this board has condemned the whole country, nor (probably) has any media source. The media, though, infer that a whole country is responsible for its government - which, in my opinion, is more or less correct.
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The horrible claims of institutionalised paedophilia (and racism, homophobia, et al) throughout our own governments and organisations are our responsibility - yours and mine. We vote for these people and allow others to inhabit positions of power and influence and so, in my opinion, these crimes are as much our responsibility as the perpetrators. Most of us, however, are content to sit back and let the very institutions where these evil crimes take place sort themselves out. I am as guilty of this as anyone and I don't know what the solution is beyond being vigilant and making an unholy noise about it.

[Hawkmumbler]

No. We are not responsible for the immoral sexual urges of a high and mighty prick in parliament. They are responsible for their own inhibitions.

[Jim_Campbell]

In short, the Russian legislation does not bar transsexuals from driving merely for being transsexual

You're right, and I was wrong. Indeed, a quick google of "russia transsexual driving ban" does indeed reveal a plethora of reports on the 'ban' on major news sites and very few reporting the clarification, which came only a few days later.

(I will say that I remain sceptical that this shows systemic anti-Russian bias, given that "News outlet reports story that lends itself to sensationalist headline but fails to give same priority to less exciting clarification" is hardly exclusive to stories about Russia.)

1) Yes, I do get to leave that aside because I'm talking about facts and not morality.

Either you hold an indefensible view of homosexuality — that it's broadly equivalent with paedophilia and is capable of 'infecting' impressionable young minds — or you are acting as an apologist for that view.

And, yes, I am more than aware of Saudi Arabia's appalling record on every aspect of human rights and condemn both that and the West's cynical ability to turn a blind eye to the Saudi regime's many atrocities. I can and do condemn that and condemn the Putin regime's vehemently anti-gay stance.

Jim

[JayzusB.Christ]

Jeez Bear, Russia covers a huge amount of different climate and time zones and is hugely under populated. My guess is most of it is stunningly beautiful. It's just we never get to see the good bits. Z

I'm pretty sure he was joking...

[Richmond Clements]

Jeez Bear, Russia covers a huge amount of different climate and time zones and is hugely under populated. My guess is most of it is stunningly beautiful. It's just we never get to see the good bits. Z

I'm pretty sure he was joking...

He's from Cookstown is he not?
Russia must look like the Hanging Gardens of Babylon to him...

[JayzusB.Christ]

Fair point...

(Whereas I myself am from the Utopian metropolis of Kells, County Meath, truly the jewel in the crown of the Western World.)

EDIT:  Though actually I meant it was the Bear who was joking about all of Russia being shit.

[ZenArcade]

Sorry Jayzus, I know the Bear was, as was I. Cookstown's not that bad, I used to head out to clubland in my younger days. Z