Prometheus

[radiator]

I actually think Avatar is a superior movie. Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't watch either again by choice, but at least Avatar tells a COHERENT story. I understand WHY its characters are doing the things they are doing. It has a beginning, middle, and a conclusion that draws all the plot strands together to deliver the film's wider message. The characters - even the supporting ones - have natural, satisfying arcs that you could plot on a graph.

Prometheus felt like you could chop it up and switch all the scenes around and it would make just as much (or little...) sense as it does in it's current form.

It frustrates me that people want to like Prometheus soooo much that they are willing to project so much onto it - there's a difference between an open-ended, ambiguous story and just plain bad storytelling.

And before anyone says it, my Avatar analogy doesnt mean I want every film to be safe and predictable, but I can also tell when I'm being pissed on and told its raining.

[JOE SOAP]

Cameron was always a better director than Scott and he can write.


To me Ridley Scott is Tim Burton who likes Moebius and Giger instead of Vincent Price and Edward Gorey. Both equally bad at telling stories.

[Beaky Smoochies]

Youve seen the film, now buy the action figures.

And thus the REAL reason why the studio greenlit Prometheus is finally unveiled...

[radiator]

Urgh, so much vague, clueless gesturing at big themes and ideas, and to sum up the films grand themes... it just sort of shrugs and says "something about creating life, or faith... or whatever".

A colossaly pretentious film, that totally ducks out of saying anything of any substance at all about anything.

Right, enough whining, it's late.

[HdE]

Adding another hour to the film's runtime would only make it more bloated than it already is. Those ideas need refining not more self-indulgence.

See, I didn't think the movie was 'bloated' at all. It felt to me like it cracked along at a fair lick, and whatever else I can say about the movie, whatever faults I perceived, I was certainly never bored. Remember - I'm in the camp that enjoyed the movie in spite of finding shortcomings left right and center.

I'd be intrigued to see how a longer cut of the movie played out. For one thing, I'd like to see if those big ideas that were being touted in the movie's pre-release fanfare would get any more exposure, or even if (whisper it softly) they were barely ever there in the first place.

For now, at least, what it is is what it is. I hope we DO get an alternate version at some point, because the movie's flaws really do detract from it quite noticeably, and my hope is that there's something on the cutting room floor that papers over some of the cracks. Optimistic? Possibly.

Radiator's point about people 'projecting' stuff onto the movie is interesting, because I've seen a lot of quite deep discussion online that's been provoked by it. I've also seen a few folks insisting the movie is a disaster, that people who like it are somehow delusional or in denial (ugh. Enough with that juvenile shit, already!) and conversely that the film is a masterpiece. I'm really quite surprised at the variety of different reactions to it!

Personally, I don't think it's a deep movie at all. Those 'big questions' are all handled to a one in a cack-handed, dumbed-down Hollywood fashion, just as I predicted when the chatter started way, way back. Radiator's last post puts better than I could have with regard to that. It's a monsters-jump-on-people-adventures-in-space movie, I think. Nothing more, nothing less.

Oh, but it's got Noomi Rapace in it. I fancy her. That definitely helps.

[radiator]

Agh, can't sleep - had waaaay too much caffeine earlier...

I think there IS a little delusion going on with regards to this film in certain quarters, yes. A lot of people seem to want to bend over backwards to make allowances for the dreadful, nonsensical story (or 'speculating'), and are debating it in far deeper terms than the material warrants.

I was in denial about The Phantom Menace for a long time. I had worked myself up so much back then that I couldn't even comprehend the possibility that I might NOT like it. It wasn't until a few years later with the benefit of hindsight that I could see it for the stinker it was.

I have no doubt that if Prometheus had NO ties to Alien whatsoever it would be getting a near-universal panning. Thought of in those terms, it isn't really that different to something like Mission to Mars/Red Planet.

It'll probably sell quite well on DVD, but I would bet money that those DVDs will do little but gather dust and Prometheus will be a largely forgotten footnote in the Alien story a few years from now.

It does look nice, though.

[HdE]

Agh, can't sleep - had waaaay too much caffeine earlier...

Oh, I know that feeling! Just nodded off only to be awakened 15 minutes later by my neighbours doing God-Only-Knows-What next door.

I think there IS a little delusion going on with regards to this film in certain quarters, yes. A lot of people seem to want to bend over backwards to make allowances for the dreadful, nonsensical story (or 'speculating'), and are debating it in far deeper terms than the material warrants.

Trouble is, this is the sort of statement that causes trouble. 'Dreadful' and 'nonsensical' are surely expressions of personal taste / opinion? Granted, we're talking about a movie with faults, but some of the stuff that's been pointed out can be waved away with a 'just go with it' attitude.

Personally, I'm more inclined to believe that folks who are seeing the movie and saying they liked it might - GASP! - actually like it! Most of the folks I'm seeing who have positive things to say seem to have enjoyed the movie on the level I did - spotting problems but having fun with what works.

You could also turn the whole delusion / denial thing on it's head and aim it back at the more vocal detractors. I've seen comments criticising Fassbender's performance as 'wooden' and the SFX as 'naff'. Now, to me, that sort of smacks of 'what else could I possibly say about this movie to put across that I didn't like it?' Some folks are really losing their cool with each other over this stuff online, and that makes me alternately groan and giggle when I see it. Nobody gets to define the quality of something for somebody else. That's just stupid.

I should hasten to add: Not meaning these comments as a dig at / argument with you, Radiator. Just remarking on something I've observed some places where I've seen discussion of the movie.

I'm just noticing that I'm posting A LOT in this thread. Heh! Sorry fellas - I just find the reception of this movie fascinating.

AND! There's a lot of interesting stuff being said online right now.

I dunno if you guys are seeing any of the discussion about Prometheus' box office performance? There's apparently been a 25% drop in ticket sales already (although there are also still territories where the movie has yet to open, according to some websites). Sounds kinda grim. But then again, I think it's way too early to say whether that'll mean bad news for hopes of a franchise.

Lindelhof also has gone on record in an interview saying that a sequel is by no means a foregone conclusion, and even makes a veiled indication that he may not be attached as writer should it come to pass. Good golly gosh... could this herald the return of... M. NIGHT SHYAMAL-- Aaaahhh! I got ya there! [Chortle!] But no, seriously - everything before that was true.

I also see that there seems to be no let up in the viral marketing. Apparently there's a new website that offers a few teases as to what might be coming next... and when! Seriously, there's a date that seems to be having a big deal made out of it. That's sparked a fair bit of conversation and speculation. What could it mean? Some folks have suggested all sorts of ideas, including the home video release date. That seems unlikely in my opinion. Why go to that extra length to promote it? 

Could it be we've got more Prometheus stuff in store before the end of the year???

[radiator]

I think the fact that, of the 10 of us who went to see the film yesterday, no one fully understood it, and many had conflicting theories as to what the story was. There were certain plot points that NO ONE could explain why they were in the film at all and what purpose they served the story. Even on this thread, people are positing rather contrived explanations of what the film is about.

I think that's pretty categorically what you'd call a 'nonsensical' story.

There is letting your audience draw their own conclusions, then there is not even giving them enough information to be able to.

I'm not saying no one got any genuine enjoyment out of the film - there were certain moments in it even I enjoyed - but you're in denial if you think it's any other than a deeply, deeply flawed film and a poorly written script. It's like when your favourite band make a shit album. You still kinda like it because, you know, theyre your favourite band.

[Eric Plumrose]

Personally, I don't think it's a deep movie at all. Those 'big questions' are all handled to a one in a cack-handed, dumbed-down Hollywood fashion, just as I predicted when the chatter started way, way back. Radiator's last post puts better than I could have with regard to that. It's a monsters-jump-on-people-adventures-in-space movie, I think. Nothing more, nothing less.

On that, we're agreed. The problem is what little mystery there is in PROMETHEARSE doesn't unfold it simply gets explained. By superfluous and mostly annoying characters doing illogical things during random set-pieces borrowed from ALIEN thrown together in an unfocused, dramatically unsatisfying mess of a film.

I can't see another hour improving on that when there was already sufficient time to tell a fun, coherent tale about how life here began out there, far across the universe.

[SmallBlueThing]

Watching the geekworld tie itself in knots over this film has made me completely change my mind- im now definitely going to see the bloody thing, and cant wait to do so. But first, i want to rewatch Alien, as i havent seen it in years.

A young lady at my work, fresh out of university where she'd been studying psychology (but not spelling, if her reports are to go by) saw it and proclaimed it 'one of the best films she's ever seen'. Since she's a huge fan of scorcese and coppola and burton, and reckons the godfather to be the greatest film ever made (with pulp fiction a close second), this should prove interesting...

SBT

[Roger Godpleton]

OMG, she likes movies that are actually good, shame on her.

[radiator]

I actually thought the script for Alien: Harvest had some interesting ideas in it.  The notion that the titular Aliens were originally tiny insect-like beings that were developed to terraform planets is cool, and I always imagined the Space Jockeys to be an unknowable alien intelligence - not outright evil but mysterious and a little sinister.

The bumsex might have been a bit much for a summer blockbuster audience though - especially in IMAX 3d.

[Eric Plumrose]

Watching the geekworld tie itself in knots over this film has made me completely change my mind- im now definitely going to see the bloody thing, and cant wait to do so.

Having no real interest in the ALIEN franchise beyond Giger's involvement, my problems with PROMETHEARSE aren't geek-related. I just wanted to watch a well-made film and be entertained by it.

[JOE SOAP]

I actually thought the script for Alien: Harvest had some interesting ideas in it.  The notion that the titular Aliens were originally tiny insect-like beings that were developed to terraform planets is cool, and I always imagined the Space Jockeys to be an unknowable alien intelligence - not outright evil but mysterious and a little sinister.

The bumsex might have been a bit much for a summer blockbuster audience though - especially in IMAX 3d.

Didn't Joe Spaiths say that was a fake script.

[Fisticuffs]

I think the fact that, of the 10 of us who went to see the film yesterday...

Completely agree with you. I try to get across to people that it was a poor film, not that I disagreed with the expansion of the Alien universe or anything. But I just get labelled 'Fanboy' and ignored. Many people do seem to be in a state of denial about the poor quality of this film, and hopefully time will recitify that.