Superman: Man Of Steel (2013)

[Recrewt]

Dan and Laurie are the heart of Watchmen, which is a cold book to start with. The moment Snyder turns the alley fight into a bloodbath, he turns them into killers, which is a catastrophic mis-reading of the book. Or, y'know, he just doesn't care about the characters and likes turning the violence up to 11. (Rorschach drowns the Big Figure in a toilet — how does it make sense that there's blood coming out from under the stall door? Except that violence is, y'know, cool and stuff.)

I know that lots has been said of the increasing violence in the film compared to the comic but I actually thought this added to the characters - batman seems to kick ass all day without any real affect on his foes - how likely is that?  In this film we get to see a more bloody version of the street fighting these characters sometimes have to use.  This helps the viewer question what measures are deemed suitable and ties in with the whole 'freelance vigilantes being banned' and 'who watches the watchmen' theme.  Saying that, I still got Laurie's and Dan's tenderness and underlying will to do good. 

I did wonder about the toilet blood scene myself first time I saw that though!  Perhaps he had a cut on his face - you know how those can bleed? 

[Professor Bear]

Another thing with Watchmen is that it was a standard post-millennial superhero movie with body armor, gym-toned bodies, superhuman fighting abilities and murderous protagonists which not only misses the point of the text, it means the film is not a reaction to but an extension of the expected superhero movie tropes and thus no more ambitious than Superhero Movie was.  In the film's defence, though, at least in adapting the original book it avoids being the work of greedy scabs like Before Watchmen was.  Snyder will thus always have the perfectly legitimate defence that he liked the book and wanted to film it as best he could.

I liked the opening credits sequence.  May as well throw that out there.  And that they used a decent Smashing Pumpkins song (yes, there is such a thing) in the teaser promos, even if they did snaffle it from the Batman and Robin soundtrack.

[radiator]

Dan and Laurie are the heart of Watchmen, which is a cold book to start with. The moment Snyder turns the alley fight into a bloodbath, he turns them into killers, which is a catastrophic mis-reading of the book. Or, y'know, he just doesn't care about the characters and likes turning the violence up to 11. (Rorschach drowns the Big Figure in a toilet — how does it make sense that there's blood coming out from under the stall door? Except that violence is, y'know, cool and stuff.)

Cannot agree more - see also the bit with the intestines hanging off the chandelier which almost ruins the otherwise perfect Dr Manhattan origin (well, perfect except for Dr Manhattan's bodybuilder physique!). And I know it makes me sound like an unbearable judgemental snob, but when a fan of the graphic novel claims that the film is great and the changes don't bother them, I always think to myself that they probably didn't really get the book either, and appreciate it only on a superficial level.

I still appreciate the Watchmen movie on a purely visual level and for sequences like the credits and the aforementioned Dr Manhattan bit, but it misses the point in a major, major way.

The comparison to Dredd is an interesting one - though not quite fair as Dredd has had so many different interpretations and is more tonally flexible to start with- from Heavy Metal Dredd to the Day the Law Died to America (and has always been outlandishly violent if not always particularly gory) while Watchmen not so much.

In this film we get to see a more bloody version of the street fighting these characters sometimes have to use.  This helps the viewer question what measures are deemed suitable and ties in with the whole 'freelance vigilantes being banned' and 'who watches the watchmen' theme.

Well, a)The violence in the film isn't at all realistic and very stylised - it's very much leering and 'woahhh violence is cool!' as Jim says - which doen't back up your point and b) most of the the combat in the comic is very much rendered in the aesthetic of Silver Age comic books - and is one of the reasons Watchmen would never have really worked on-screen.

[Dark Jimbo]

The ramped-up violence leads to some stupid plot holes as well.

In the GN's opening scenes, the Comedian is a broken man. Weeping and getting drunk in front of the TV, [spoiler]Ozymandias[/spoiler] turns up, knocks him around a bit - to which the Comedian hardly even puts up a defence - and then sends him sailing out of a plate glass window.

In the film the Comedian is watching TV, smoking a cigar and cackling merrily - EVEN THOUGH we find out later in the film that, as in the GN, he is supposed to be a broken man at this point. [spoiler]Ozymandias[/spoiler] turns up, and the two get down some proper high-end fisticuffs. Rather than submitting meekly to his inevitable and half-expected fate, the Comedian gives as good as he gets. [spoiler]Ozymandias[/spoiler], rather than slapping him around a little, decides he'll be better off punching him through several consecutive apartment walls before finally throwing him out of the window - presumably because Snyder thought the original fight was not 'cool' enough as was. This makes the cops who then turn up at the scene look monumentally stupid, as they talk about a potential burglary gone wrong and wonder who the culprit might be. Well, given that the mysterious assailant punched the Comedian through several thick brick walls with a single punch, do you not think it might have been a superhuman, hmm? And given that there aren't many of those about I'd say the list of suspects is pretty small, too. But everyone convieniently ignores this because the plot requires that Comedian's death be a mystery.

That's the first scene after the opening credits, and Snyder's already shot himself in the foot.

[TordelBack]

I agree with everything Joe, Jim, Radiator, Jimbo and the Bear say above.  Every single word.  Watchmen is the uncanny valley of comics adaptations - it looks almost perfect, but it's dead inside and it shows it in every inflection.

[Steve Green]

It's been a while since I've seen it, but find it hard to disagree.

[radiator]

In the GN's opening scenes, the Comedian is a broken man. Weeping and getting drunk in front of the TV, [spoiler]Ozymandias[/spoiler] turns up, knocks him around a bit - to which the Comedian hardly even puts up a defence - and then sends him sailing out of a plate glass window.

In the film the Comedian is watching TV, smoking a cigar and cackling merrily - EVEN THOUGH we find out later in the film that, as in the GN, he is supposed to be a broken man at this point. [spoiler]Ozymandias[/spoiler] turns up, and the two get down some proper high-end fisticuffs. Rather than submitting meekly to his inevitable and half-expected fate, the Comedian gives as good as he gets.

Absolutely - I remember being really bothered by that in the cinema. The other fundamental flaw with the movie is that they made all the human 'costumed avengers' into superhumans, who can punch through walls, somersault through the air in slo-mo etc etc. Totally robs all the intrigue of the comic - and dismantles the gulf between them and the truly superhuman Dr Manhattan. This is not nit-picking - it drastically changes the tone and scope of the narrative. Part of the point of the book was that the characters were supposed to look a bit goofy and silly! There's also an annoying bit where when the assassin tries to cap Ozymandias and a nameless exec gets shot right between the eyes and his glasses split in two in slow motion as the bullet shatters them because violence is cool and stuff. Totally distracting and stupid.

The comic can occasionally be a little overly po-faced and portentous, but in the context of the film, with it's juvenile Mortal Kombat/music video aesthetic, these problems are magnified by 1000%.

[COMMANDO FORCES]

I'm going to see this Friday, first showing and only doing the 2D version. I wonder if any strange things will happen in the pictures

[dracula1]

I loved The Watcmen GN and the film too. It visually captured the essence of Moore and Gibbons book in a unique cinematic way. There wasn't enough hours in the film to capture the nature of all the wonderful characters though.

I believe Synder will do a great visual job on Man of Steel (as Travis did with Dredd), it's up to Goyer and Nolan to guide the film into achieving it's best with plot and characterisation.

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

I thought Rosarch in the canteen was a fantastic scene in the film. The rest, not so much.

[Frank]

70% on Rotten Tomatoes; 50% from top critics.

[Charlie boy]

My favourite line from one of the Rotten Tomatoes reviews is definitely
"it slips into a final 45 minutes of explosions and fights during which reason starts to vanish and the science gets muddy."

[Eric Plumrose]

I know it makes me sound like an unbearable judgemental snob, but when a fan of the graphic novel claims that the film is great and the changes don't bother them, I always think to myself that they probably didn't really get the book either, and appreciate it only on a superficial level.

I have no love for the movie -- even Rorschach still seems off to me -- but I much preferred the screen denouement: the perceived threat is more substantive, one with added relatability in-universe in that there's a significant likelihood [spoiler]Doctor Manhattan will return at some point[/spoiler].

[Charlie boy]

For me, the big Watchmen movie mistake was probably the prison having Rorschach's costume there. Sure, it saved time because he didn't have to go home for his spare outfit, but his not going back home for his outfit meant we didn't get the scene were he pulls up his landlady for what she has said on the news- only to see her kids at her side so he quickly turns and leaves.

[TordelBack]

... but his not going back home for his outfit meant we didn't get the scene were he pulls up his landlady for what she has said on the news- only to see her kids at her side so he quickly turns and leaves.

That would have been too much heart, and not enough bullet time.