London Riots

[COMMANDO FORCES]

There are NO EXCUSES for what is happening out on the streets of this country at this present time.

Poverty in this country is not real poverty, it's relative poverty. Nobody knows what its like to be poor and never will in this country with all its failsafes. By the way,

Relative poverty is where some people's way of life and income is so much worse than the general standard of living in the country or region in which they live that they struggle to live a normal life and to participate in ordinary economic, social and cultural activities.  What this means will vary from country to country, depending on the standard of living enjoyed by the majority.  While not as extreme as absolute poverty, relative poverty is still very serious and harmful

The European Union's Social Inclusion Process uses a relative definition of poverty.

As you can see, it varies from country to country. In our country I would hazard a guess that it means that you can't go to the cinema, afford the internet, smoke, drink, own multiple game systems, have SKY, watch football, swim in leisure centres, own a smart phone, etc...

These thieving scumbags (for thieving scumbags are what they are) live in a fucking dream world. Life is fucking hard and us, as individuals have to work bloody hard to stay afloat most of the time. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people leading shit lives in this country but they don't fucking well riot, they don't burn people's shops down, they don't hold areas of cities in fear just because they feel the FUCKING GOVERNMENT owes then a fucking superb standard of living (whoever may be in power).

It seems people want to blame anyone or anything for their own actions but themselves. Fuck me, I went on one summer holiday as a child (camping in the Lake District), I had free school dinners and had to hand over a ticket for that dinner, so that everyone knew we woz the poor family. I had our Gordon's hand-me-downs when he grew out of them. I lived on a council estate in a Labour stronghold, with nothing to do, as we had fuck all money. I decided to get a paper round at 13 (the legal limit) and save my money for things I wanted. My father left home and my mother had a major stroke in front of me (I was 14 at the time). I left school with grade A's & B's in all my O-Levels (it was either 9 or 11, I can't remember) and did what I always wanted to do, join the army. When I left the army I said that I would do ANY job to pay my mortgage and keep my family fed. I was made unemployed from a firm after 13 years as they lost all the contracts and closed the depot down. I walked straight into another job when I was on gardening leave and that's where I am at now.

As many of you know, my son has autism, do I go and blame the government, no I fucking don't!

As I said earlier life is hard sometimes. I bet many of the forum have had a bloody hard life and probably still are having one (having read some of the things on the 'life is shit' thread) but you haven't smashed up shops to show you hate the Government.

Lets blame society, I get sick of hearing this being churned out. Why the fuck is everyone else to blame for these bastards doing what they are doing. I've done my civic duty many times in Maidstone, saving a drowning man in the Medway, saving a drunks life who had smashed his head open in a graveyard one night, helping old people who have collapsed, stopped litterbugs (and had so much aggro for that), etc... I do these things because it is my duty as a human being, I don't want public thanks (I didn't leave my name with the authorities for the first two incidents because I did it for the person and not for me). I've said it before but I think I will probably die while I intervene in some horrendous incident, as I would never walk away when someone needs help!

What I'm trying to get at is there is right and there is wrong, life is that simple when it comes to your actions.

One last thing before I go to bed. There are thousands upon thousands of children in this country who have parents with serious illnesses or disabilities or both and they have to look after them. They don't have a normal childhood because of this but they just get on with it, missing out on what many of us take for granted. Their parents feel terrible about ruining their childrens lives because of the things they have to do for the very person who should be looking after them (I have watched many programmes and read interviews and the like about these forgotten children). I bet none of these children and teenagers went on the rampage but they would at least have some reason to do so, living the life that they have!

Some people don't know how bloody lucky they are by living on this wonderous planet and especially in a free country such as Great Britain!

Gang culture, I want everything and I want it now culture, I just want to be famous culture, drug culture, Why should I work for it culture, I could go on!

One good thing that came out of this was the amazing community spirit of all ages in the clean up work organised via the multi media. I say well done to all who did this, as it shows there are more decent people out there than the thugs!

I did have a load of quotes lined up and was going to rip everyone of them apart but I can't be arsed, as it's bed time and I'm going up London tomorrow today, shopping and eating in Camden and then The Lion King, so I need some sleep!

Meandering about at times there but I've had a long day celebrating Carolyn's 40th (no drinking but a lot of organising and taxi work by me, so everyone else could drink) but still reading the thread on my phone when I could and just had to say something before bed. Fuck, I'm up in 4 hours, GOODNIGHT!

[Misanthrope]

There are NO EXCUSES for what is happening out on the streets of this country at this present time.

Poverty in this country is not real poverty, it's relative poverty. Nobody knows what its like to be poor and never will in this country with all its failsafes. By the way,

Relative poverty is where some people's way of life and income is so much worse than the general standard of living in the country or region in which they live that they struggle to live a normal life and to participate in ordinary economic, social and cultural activities.  What this means will vary from country to country, depending on the standard of living enjoyed by the majority.  While not as extreme as absolute poverty, relative poverty is still very serious and harmful

The European Union's Social Inclusion Process uses a relative definition of poverty.

As you can see, it varies from country to country. In our country I would hazard a guess that it means that you can't go to the cinema, afford the internet, smoke, drink, own multiple game systems, have SKY, watch football, swim in leisure centres, own a smart phone, etc...

These thieving scumbags (for thieving scumbags are what they are) live in a fucking dream world. Life is fucking hard and us, as individuals have to work bloody hard to stay afloat most of the time. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people leading shit lives in this country but they don't fucking well riot, they don't burn people's shops down, they don't hold areas of cities in fear just because they feel the FUCKING GOVERNMENT owes then a fucking superb standard of living (whoever may be in power).

It seems people want to blame anyone or anything for their own actions but themselves. Fuck me, I went on one summer holiday as a child (camping in the Lake District), I had free school dinners and had to hand over a ticket for that dinner, so that everyone knew we woz the poor family. I had our Gordon's hand-me-downs when he grew out of them. I lived on a council estate in a Labour stronghold, with nothing to do, as we had fuck all money. I decided to get a paper round at 13 (the legal limit) and save my money for things I wanted. My father left home and my mother had a major stroke in front of me (I was 14 at the time). I left school with grade A's & B's in all my O-Levels (it was either 9 or 11, I can't remember) and did what I always wanted to do, join the army. When I left the army I said that I would do ANY job to pay my mortgage and keep my family fed. I was made unemployed from a firm after 13 years as they lost all the contracts and closed the depot down. I walked straight into another job when I was on gardening leave and that's where I am at now.

As many of you know, my son has autism, do I go and blame the government, no I fucking don't!

As I said earlier life is hard sometimes. I bet many of the forum have had a bloody hard life and probably still are having one (having read some of the things on the 'life is shit' thread) but you haven't smashed up shops to show you hate the Government.

Lets blame society, I get sick of hearing this being churned out. Why the fuck is everyone else to blame for these bastards doing what they are doing. I've done my civic duty many times in Maidstone, saving a drowning man in the Medway, saving a drunks life who had smashed his head open in a graveyard one night, helping old people who have collapsed, stopped litterbugs (and had so much aggro for that), etc... I do these things because it is my duty as a human being, I don't want public thanks (I didn't leave my name with the authorities for the first two incidents because I did it for the person and not for me). I've said it before but I think I will probably die while I intervene in some horrendous incident, as I would never walk away when someone needs help!

What I'm trying to get at is there is right and there is wrong, life is that simple when it comes to your actions.

One last thing before I go to bed. There are thousands upon thousands of children in this country who have parents with serious illnesses or disabilities or both and they have to look after them. They don't have a normal childhood because of this but they just get on with it, missing out on what many of us take for granted. Their parents feel terrible about ruining their childrens lives because of the things they have to do for the very person who should be looking after them (I have watched many programmes and read interviews and the like about these forgotten children). I bet none of these children and teenagers went on the rampage but they would at least have some reason to do so, living the life that they have!

Some people don't know how bloody lucky they are by living on this wonderous planet and especially in a free country such as Great Britain!

Gang culture, I want everything and I want it now culture, I just want to be famous culture, drug culture, Why should I work for it culture, I could go on!

One good thing that came out of this was the amazing community spirit of all ages in the clean up work organised via the multi media. I say well done to all who did this, as it shows there are more decent people out there than the thugs!

I did have a load of quotes lined up and was going to rip everyone of them apart but I can't be arsed, as it's bed time and I'm going up London tomorrow today, shopping and eating in Camden and then The Lion King, so I need some sleep!

Meandering about at times there but I've had a long day celebrating Carolyn's 40th (no drinking but a lot of organising and taxi work by me, so everyone else could drink) but still reading the thread on my phone when I could and just had to say something before bed. Fuck, I'm up in 4 hours, GOODNIGHT!

You have my vote for prime minister, CF.

[Orlok]

Seconded. Do we need to get you a hat or anything, Mr B?

[TordelBack]

It'd be hard to find a single word to disagree with in CF's eloquent and well-argued post, but it doesn't really offer much in the way of a solution.

If it's all down to the individual to know right from wrong (agreed), but 'society' has absolutely no role in shaping this essential and lamentably rare quality, how do you move things forward?  You can't be the parent of every kid in the world, you can really only influence your own (hopefully), and maybe those in your immediate circle.  If wider society (or government, or economy, or education) is not to be blamed for anything, it obviously has no role to play in how kids grow up and how they behave - so what mechanisms for change are there, outside your own family?  Just arrest a lot of people a lot of times and hope for the best?

[Radbacker]

you guys are just copying the Greeks, they have Riots a month ago and now you have Riots!  not a single original thought amongst you Euro types . 

BUt honestly it seems like a rather beastly situation over there and hope you all come through it ok.  Its good to see the Clean Up riots that are happening now, see people can get on together for more than just destruction.

CU Radbacker

[mygrimmbrother]

Legendary Shark , I just want to say you're my fucking hero.

Please God, don't say that. (Unless you're being ironic, in which case - carry on!)

Sorry chief, didn't mean to embarrass you. Erm, yeah, irony - that's right, sure

[Leigh S]

It'd be hard to find a single word to disagree with in CF's eloquent and well-argued post, but it doesn't really offer much in the way of a solution.

If it's all down to the individual to know right from wrong (agreed), but 'society' has absolutely no role in shaping this essential and lamentably rare quality, how do you move things forward?  You can't be the parent of every kid in the world, you can really only influence your own (hopefully), and maybe those in your immediate circle.  If wider society (or government, or economy, or education) is not to be blamed for anything, it obviously has no role to play in how kids grow up and how they behave - so what mechanisms for change are there, outside your own family?  Just arrest a lot of people a lot of times and hope for the best?

Society could help by making it pay to work and by equalising some of the inequalities in this country, but thats about as far as it could go.  And frankly, the kind of people who are doing this are not people frustrated with their lot - they seem quite happy with it.

They arent after more opportunities - they arent after better policing, they are after more opportunities to get things for minimum effort and less policing to allow for that.  Benefits pay near as much or even more than they could earn, and they get to top it up with shoplifting, mugging, burglary or even a bit of light looting.  None of this is mindless, they've made a fairly logical life choice if you remove all morals from the equation.  And its embedded in generations of thinking now, the penalties if they do get caught (such as they are) are clearly accepted as part of the deal.  So sadly, I think the only real solution isnt locking them up a lot of times, its locking them up once.  Then the choice becomes less logical.  And this is from someone who is actually a leftie (honestly!)

It frustrates me that if they want things to change, they could channel this power into something positive. As it is, the people who really want change are left cowering in their homes, as they probably would have been  before this kicked off.

[Matt Timson]

Interesting thread. I would only add that there seems to be some confusion between underlying causes and excuses for bad behaviour. Take away the former and the latter becomes redundant.

I won't excuse any rioter- but you have to be a bit simple- or cocooned from the real world- not to have seen it coming. The divide between rich and poor gets wider every day (and by poor, I don't just mean those on benefits- I also include those working minimum wage that know they are working just to live and will never progress).

Historically, this situation has never ended well. Why is anybody surprised this time?

[Goaty]

very Dredd?

[mygrimmbrother]

Interesting thread. I would only add that there seems to be some confusion between underlying causes and excuses for bad behaviour.

This. Everywhere I go on the net the former is mistaken for the latter. Discussing how this situation might have come about is not the same as condoning it by a long stretch.

[johnnystress]

yes..what those last two said

and..
http://london.craigslist.co.uk/mob/2536072357.html

[spireite68]

Absoluetly spot on post Mr Burdis.

There is no excuse for what has happened over the last few days here in the UK. Wanton, mindless thuggery pure and simple. What sickens me too, apart from all the crimes we are seeing committed and the lack of police action, is the sickening left wing liberal view that its society, govt fault for all this. There you have the problem, years of left wing doctrine to the masses saying "its ok its not your fault, the state will care for you".

Its a sad day when i see Police officers standing around not knowing what to do for fear of reprecussions and the end result being what we are seeing. The Police force has been stripped of any form of authority and power because of the "rights" of the individual. Yes I'm all for rights but rights have to be earned. In my eyes these scum have no rights, they forfeited those as soon as they smashed a shop window, set something alight, attacked someone and destroyed property.

I strongly disagree with the notion of poverty, social deprevation etc for the cause of this as all the lefty apologists do. If its poverty then i think the streets of Calcutta, Brasov, Bogota etc etc would have been in a permanent state of rioting for years. These scum have no notion of the world and anything that dosnt affect them. As Mr Burdis says poverty is relative, I dont have a blackberry like most of these so called "protesters" have does that make me poor?
We have created an underclass of people who have no concept responibility, have become dependant on state handouts and encouraged to breed. All this alongside the monstrous "celebrity culture" which has clearly clouded reality for these people.
I have worked with some really disturbed kids over the years who have known poverty, neglect and abuse and i will tell you now a lot of these kids have gone to better things. I see some of them from time to time and its wonderful to hear that they are getting on. These kids have got on with their lives and made the right choices even though, according to left wing liberalism, they should by rights have sunken into drugs, alcohol abuse, crime and poverty because of what card society has dealt them.
What is ironic is that as i write this there are interviews on TV with some of these scum and because the lefty apologists have mentioned the fact its down to society, these scum are coming out with quotes like "its the govt innit", "whoever they are" fuelling the notion of its not our fault. Do these people (left wing apologists) realise what they are saying? If you gave these scum pictures of the cabinet i doubt they would know who they are but give them a picture of Nappy or Dappy or whatever his fucking ridiculous name is they would know who it is.
The full force of law should be brought down on these scumbags and if it starts again the police need to take decisive direct action and wade in with their batons etc. If people get hurt so be it they shouldnt be breaking the fucking law.
What do we do with the perps? Not what they do now thats for sure. Fucking playstations, right to vote, gyms etc. And please dont tell me i dont know what i am talking about i have seen it first hand. Prison should be first and foremost be about punishment. Stick these fuckers in solitary for the first 6 months and then hereafter if they dont comply and i bet the notion of redemption and rehabilitation will soon sink in.
Sorry for the rant as this has really made me fucking angry as i know it will be me and every other law abiding citizen that will be footing the bill for this.
"RIGHTS? SURE I'M ALL FOR RIGHTS BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF ORDER"

[mygrimmbrother]

So mentioning a discussion about the underlying causes makes me a 'lefty apologist' does it? If that's what you're saying you can piss off.

[Matt Timson]

We have created an underclass of people who have no concept responibility, have become dependant on state handouts and encouraged to breed. All this alongside the monstrous "celebrity culture" which has clearly clouded reality for these people.

So what you're really saying is that society IS to blame. Well done.

[spireite68]

We have created an underclass of people who have no concept responibility, have become dependant on state handouts and encouraged to breed. All this alongside the monstrous "celebrity culture" which has clearly clouded reality for these people.

So what you're really saying is that society IS to blame. Well done.

No i am not what i am saying is that people have choices whatever the circumstance. There are plenty of people who are in these circumstances but make the choice not to get involved, if everyone decided to riot then the streets would be overun. Its down to the individual choice of someone.