London Riots

[spireite68]

Let's leave the name calling aside shall we?  No one is saying they sympathise with the rioters merely that this must have more causes than just criminality.

The Devil will make work for idle hands to do sang Morrissey so I think that having almost a million under 25 year olds unemployed must have something to do with this but before you get your Bazooka's out it's certainly not the only factor. As some commentaters have pointed out almost all the worst affected areas have had long established Gang problems for years, decades even.

The rules to enforce the Law against repeat offenders are often complex involving various State Agencies who can only do so much since I assume we all believe in some sort of Freewill though Science may be demolishing that story soon. Criminals know only too well that enforcement is pretty arbitary, subject too all sort of errors and therefore if they choose to commit crime they can carry on with little to restrain them. One Lad from Manchester was happily boasting on SKY News how the Police kept catching him for 'minor crimes' as if the Police were some sort of inconvenience that came along to bother him occasionally and he was much happier with his prospects of getting away with his criminality thanks too all the rioting and looting. Not really a 'victim' of society as far as I could tell.

That said some social study evidence from Scandanavia did show that a more equal societies are happier ones, less inclined towards angry displays or social alienation. The Rich here pay far less Tax than the middle Tier of Society, earn many times more than the average worker on £24,000 and are seen as societies 'winners' while the very poor have hardly seen their prospects rise at all and are stuck in the Rut with little to improve their lot in life. State Benefits can pay more than working in Low paid jobs so it's easy to become indolent and 'cheat the system' that you feel cheated you. The system allows CEO's/Celebrities/Footballers to get away with millions while you struggle just getting by. Social resentment is almost inevitable. We've all scoffed with incredulity as another Banker of a failed Bank gives himself a pay rise.

I hope they don't call in the Army and you feel how the Soldiers who frequent the forums reacted with some of the strongest opinions. Trained to Defend or seize territory by physical Force they see these Gangs as an enemy to be treated with the sternest measures possible. Good on yah Lads but I'm afraid this is a Social problem caused by resentment and then exploited by an unruly minority who have realized that by stretching the Police resources by sheer weight of numbers you can steal and rob at will. The Army could probably contain that but for how long do you want the Soldiers on the streets of our Major cities?

What to do? Well they'll have to get tough with the street Gangs/rioters before any Inquest into how we got to here so expect high visibilty Policing, many more arrest and possibly the Army being introduced to protect Firefighters, Ambulance crews. Then when the heat's [hopefully] died down there will  be some sort of Parliamentary investigation and we'll see from there what measures can be taken to ensure that this sort of disorder is kept to the minimum in the future.

Great post System, very well put. The voice of reason. Apologies if my comments have offended anyone on here. Being told to Piss Off was a little out of order though but there you go. My Grim Brother please do come and seek me out at either Thought Bubble or Hi Ex and will glady accept your apology. Ah well time to go and buy todays papers......mmmmmmmm think The Guardian will be good reading today!!!!

[mygrimmbrother]

sprite - if it wasn't aimed at me, then i apologise.

[spireite68]

sprite - if it wasn't aimed at me, then i apologise.

It wasnt mate. Cheers for that. I'm that angry i think i am going to loot my local shop he he he.

[mygrimmbrother]

Cool. And yes, very well put indeed IATS.

[Matt Timson]

Its just so fucking infuriating when we have a section of society who think they can do as they please with no reprecussions. I pay my fucking tax like everyone else. But people who think that society owes them without giving to society should be dealt with.

Wait- you want to go after the bankers and big business now?

Me am confussed!

[spireite68]

Me too!!!! he he he Bankers, Rioters all piss in same pot mate.

[JUDGE BURNS]

Thankfully its still quiet up here in the CAL-HAB Zone....I just pray it doesnt happen here, or we may have to release Middenface McNulty to give them rioters/savages/scumbags the old Glesga Kiss....

[Goaty]

Thankfully its still quiet up here in the CAL-HAB Zone....I just pray it doesnt happen here, or we may have to release Middenface McNulty to give them rioters/savages/scumbags the old Glesga Kiss....

Ya think?


Scottish youths arrested over Facebook 'riot' messages
Two teenagers have been arrested after messages were posted on Facebook allegedly inciting others to commit acts of disorder.

[SuperSurfer]

Ok, long one from me.

When I was a kid we were skint. We didn't have enough money for new clothes. (I was gutted that I couldn't have a pair of flares so had to wear jacked up 60s drainpipes – in the 70s!) Holidays? Forget it. But we had a study hard and work hard ethic – something that seems to be lacking for many.

Today we live in a greedy materialistic society where some people want more and more, with instant gratification and where the connection with working and having seems to have disappeared. Where mass advertising and opulence is rubbed in people's noses.

It would be mildly interesting to look at some of the clothes the looters are wearing and to work out the value. God forbid for them to be seen out looting in last season's tracksuit and trainers.

Not ideal but a natural development and I applaud those from the Turkish and Kurdish communities who took measures to defend themselves and their properties, as have Sheikhs and groups in Enfield. If these people cannot be defended by the overstretched police then good on them that they take measures to defend communities, when we are talking rampant looting, arson, robbing. A tear almost came to my eye when I saw a young Asian girl on tv saying she did not want to die when animals broke into her family's property.

As for jobs – well, there are some jobs in London. Might not be the most desirable but if someone couldn't be arsed to study, what can we do about that right now? As for "taking people's dole money off them", well, the deal is you get money while you look for work. Stop looking for work and you stop getting money. Need a suit for interviews? You can even get money for that. What about that woman photographed after being arrested having looted Currys? Where she works. Apparently.

Strange how Britain pushes its weight about in the international arena but seems impotent when dealing with its internal criminal element on the rampage, much of which is made up of kids. Many of which have only now become criminals because they have seen they can get away with it.

Is it not the scum that have been terrorising communities for years that are now finishing off their lifetime's work by burning them down? Is it not those who cause fear and despair in communities that are now just operating openly rather than in the shadows? This must be like a dream come true for them.

The school I went to was made up with a lot of kids from one of the areas that trouble kicked off in badly. If there is 'exclusion' from society, the way I see it, there is to some degree, self-imposed 'exclusion'. We all had an equal chance to make something of our lives. But for some, it is cool not to study, cool to be a bad boy. There seems to be a strong pull of this alternative culture that puts good people on the wrong path. I hear stories second hand of mothers whose kids are slipping away into crime and they are in despair. One was telling a close relative of mine that she was begging the police to take her son away as he got into a bad crowd and things were getting worse. He is now in prison for a very serious offence. Something must be done to address this at all levels. Somehow trust has to be built up with police where people turn in those within their community for the greater good. Since I was at school drugs have been added into the equation and the effect has been catastrophic. As I have said before, this gang culture has been fed by people from all strata of society – working class, the middle-class and upper class through their use of recreational drugs. It's not just Tory-like policies but this general slipping of morals.

Ok, some of the above from me is letting off steam, some is laying blame, short on solutions, but that is how I see it at the moment. Apart from the name calling I am glad that this is all being discussed here.

I have been on the periphery of the goings on. It was lock-down in my area from around 4pm yesterday as there were rumours that the looters were up the hill. I have not suffered or had to run for it like DDD (hope you're ok buddy) but it is not nice walking about and tasting fear in the air.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Its just so fucking infuriating when we have a section of society who think they can do as they please with no reprecussions. I pay my fucking tax like everyone else. But people who think that society owes them without giving to society should be dealt with.

Wait- you want to go after the bankers and big business now?



Me am confussed!

That's just it, isn't it? Whether they're rich or poor, spongers are spongers and make life difficult for the rest of us who actually believe in contributing to society.  Putting low-paid workers out of a job, whether by making them redundant or by burning down their workplace, has the same result:  The poor suffer.

P.S. Well said, Supersurfer. 

[Richmond Clements]

Good post, Surfer, and I agree with a lot of what you're saying. But:

We all had an equal chance to make something of our lives.

I cannot agree with this. There is no way it can be said that a child born in somewhere like Brixton, or in a former mining village in Wales to two unemployed parents has the same chances as someone like David Cameron or George Osbourne.
If this was the case, then universities like Oxford and Cambridge wouldn't be 90% (my figure, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was close to the truth) made up from the Upper Classes.

[SuperSurfer]

Good post, Surfer, and I agree with a lot of what you're saying. But:

We all had an equal chance to make something of our lives.

I cannot agree with this. There is no way it can be said that a child born in somewhere like Brixton, or in a former mining village in Wales to two unemployed parents has the same chances as someone like David Cameron or George Osbourne.
If this was the case, then universities like Oxford and Cambridge wouldn't be 90% (my figure, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was close to the truth) made up from the Upper Classes.

Totally agree with your point there, Richmond. It certainly is not a level playing field throughout the country. I was referring to my fellow school chums having an equal chance to make something of our lives. We all had the same treatment at school but for sure some were subject to negative influences outside of school.

[The Legendary Shark]

Looting a shop for a new telly because you can't afford one may just be a prelude of things to come.

As the private creation of money continues apace, with all the costs and expenses this vampiric system incurs, as debt continues its inevitable rise, as VAT increases, as costs increase, as energy gets scarce and the currency in your pocket is worth a little less every day - what's going to happen when people can't afford shelter or food? If some of these "rioters" are knocking off jewellers for silver, gold and precious stones then they've got the right idea. Gold and silver prices are rising fast, always a sure sign that the smart money is running for cover.

What will the hard-working people do when this happens? When you can't afford to buy 2000AD any more with your hard earned money. That might be an annoyance. If you can't afford to replace a broken appliance. An impediment. When you can't afford to pay for petrol. Longer walks. When you fall behind in your mortgage. More debt to pay the interest. When you can't afford the high quality foodstuffs. A dip in health. How much will you have to lose before you get angry enough to act?

Those at the bottom of society are more sensitive to these subtle on-gong changes in the economy and less able to adapt. Thievery, in this context, makes sense. It's like ransacking in order to get stuff that can be traded for the essentials later on. A squirrel gathering nuts for winter. Maybe some of it is instinct.

Whatever the cause, what of the future? When the economy and banking system collapse (as I think is inevitable) and your money is literally worthless so that it costs £1,000 for a loaf of bread - what will you do then? When the bailiffs come for your house through no fault of yours, what will you do? Will you comply or rebel? Best consider this now, I think.

[Michaelvk]

If some of these "rioters" are knocking off jewellers for silver, gold and precious stones then they've got the right idea. Gold and silver prices are rising fast, always a sure sign that the smart money is running for cover.

Fair enough, but I somehow doubt the reasoning behind knocking off a jewellers (or argos..) for it's bling has anything to do with a deep seated knowledge of economics..

[Hoagy]

It's definitely altruistic looting...