London Riots

[Colin Zeal]

Having the troops on the streets is a ridiculous idea that would cause far more problems than it solved.

And it seems that things may be starting to go off again in Hackney, very close to yesterday's disturbances. No real information at this time so might well prove to be nothing. Might be a long journey from work for me this evening.

[mogzilla]

more problems than rioting, arson ,theft ,at least one murder?
   
i'm not talking about armed troops gunning down looters but as actual manpower and boots on the ground to back the police  up.
they are talking more robust policing give cf a minty uniform and a daystick  ...or let buttman write a stern letter.

[SmallBlueThing]

Okay, this is odd. I dont usually find myself disagreeing with mr forces and argreeing with mr clements, but here i think richmond's got it spot on. This IS political, in the sense that the actions of these (excuse me) fucking cunts are only explainable by seeing them as the output of a society that has offered them, or their families, fuckbuggerall for at least a couple of generations. I'm not going to say one word to condone any of it, they are reprehensible shitbags- but what do you expect? Yes, they're opportunist bastards, but the fact that they act on the oportunity and you/i dont is indicative of something. And not just that they're 'brainless criminals'- they may not know why they're doing this, may not have even given it a second thought- but there's no reason why we shouldnt try to work it out.

Why is it hackney and croydon that're burning and not whitehall and downing street?

The bbc news channel grabbed a quick interview with one of them last night, and he was asked 'why are you doing this?', to which he replied 'its the government, innit'. I dont think he'd thought it through any more than that, but it doesnt matter- that IS a political statement. Even if it's transparently a bollocks, ill-conceived attempt to not have to say 'cos its fun'. But even if that's the most articulate they get it still has meaning. Unarticulated, misplaced rage and despair is still potently felt, and this is the expression of that.

I just hope that NOTHING happens tonight and that 16000 police stand around twiddling their thumbs. And that the reports im getting of such riots being organised in my home town are scare-mongering bollocks. Whatever, im not going out after eight, not even if i run out of fags.

SBT

[Albion]

Unbelievable. Total idiots who haven't got a clue.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

[mogzilla]

its not political ! they are saying its the government innit cos its a convienient excuse that they are using to justify their actions .

they need to come down hard on them for the normal residents,buisnesses etc

[SuperSurfer]

If you treat a large section of the population like scum... they will indeed behave like the animals they've been conditioned to be.

Which can work both ways.

Poor impoverished youths of Enfield.

[The Legendary Shark]

Freedom does mean freedom to riot, I guess - so maybe things aren't as bad as all that quite yet.

We've been stripped of our birthright to live our own lives free. We've had the wealth of our nations and our families sucked up by bankers. We've been hoodwinked into virtual slavery, chained to the compound we call The Economy by chains of worthless paper. We've been beaten down by myriad statutes, by-laws and regulations that should be there to help us. We can only watch as our heritage is stolen from under us and used as a building site for palaces or ghettos. Youth clubs closed down for the unforgivable crime of not making a profit. Jobs wiped out because there are cheaper and less bolshy slaves overseas. And everywhere we turn we have to pay. Pay to live in a house. Pay to stay warm. Pay to eat. Pay to piss. Pay to travel. Pay to sit still. Pay to be sick. Pay to get well. Pay to have fun. Pay. Pay. Pay. All that money going in only one general direction. All that wealth stolen a penny at a time. And then there's tax.

And then there's the media encouraging us to think narrowly, to be small and divided. Be a good Tory. Be a good Lib Dem. Be a good Labourite. Choose your colour and stick to it. Don't think about what it means. Don't think about what the others mean. Don't think beyond blue or yellow or red or green. The world is simple, you only need the news to tell you one or two sides of the argument. If you've got time to watch the news while you're being a good worker, that is. And the news is always bad. Murders and rapes and fires and famines and fear and destruction and death. Occasionally a cute kitten rescued from up a tree. Be a good citizen. Believe the news, hold one of the Authorized Opinions, feel outrage when prompted, feel sympathy when told to. Don't think; we have people to do that for you.

We're starting to see through it all. In a movie, this would be the part where the artificial holographic matrix that we've all believed to be real from birth begins to flicker. What we are beginning to see, if not yet fully realise, is how the ruling elite have been milking us, shearing us, repressing us and sending us off to fight their profitable wars for decades. How they must laugh when they hand out medals to the plebs for bravery. Like giving a dog a biscuit. Well, I think their time is almost over.

To benderise Churchill, I don't think this is the end of society or even the beginning of the end of society. But perhaps, on the longer time scale, it is the end of the beginning of society. And God knows, it's about bloody time.

[SuperSurfer]

Some people are too thick to realise that just because someone has a shop it doesn't mean they are rich and are fair game. Most people with small businesses I know are struggling. I know some people who do not pay themselves wages for months and have struggled for years and are just keeping their heads above water.

The fearlessness of these looters such as that scum on the BBC clip Albion posted have an astonishing lack of fear.

[A.Cow]

I blame the Kaiser Chiefs.  Funny how they seemed to KNOW A BIT TOO MUCH about these events BEFORE they happened...

Hang on -- inner city riots; Tory government making cuts; Kenny Dalglish at Liverpool; Come Dancing, Doctor Who and Hawaii 5-O on telly; Smurfs everywhere I look; ... have I gone back 30 years???

Seriously, modern policing methods don't help -- the emphasis is on efficiency once more (i.e. patrol cars) rather than community.  Not talking bobbies-on-the-beat (which is a bit of a rose tinted fallacy) but at least a bit more local presence.

Nobody seems to take the long-term view, either.  Getting rid of giant schools would reduce delinquency (with up to 3 x expulsion rate per pupil, they're obviously failing to catch problems early).  Removing all targets on policing would help too.  And it's fair to suggest that mass unemployment increases crime rates, so it'd be cheaper in the long run to subsidise low-grade (especially unskilled) jobs, which would have at least some effect on reducing the expensive prison population.

[Steve Green]

"Why is it hackney and croydon that're burning and not whitehall and downing street?"

A distinct lack of footlocker and currys there.

[Proudhuff]

Bankers rob and pillage, MP fiddle while London burns, the shallow Celeb 'grab your 15 mins' culture on telly and people are surprised when this is reflected back at them by these opportunist thieves?
If this had happened in Whitehall or Chelsea there would have been a crackdown but as its people shiting in there own nests it appears the police don't really give a feck

[klute]

To quote pvt gomer pyle ofc slight change from i'm to were  ''were in a world of shit''

[TordelBack]

its not political ! they are saying its the government innit cos its a convienient excuse that they are using to justify their actions .

It's not political in the sense that it is any kind of protest against government policies and decisions (it isn't, it's just bloody vandalism and theft), but it is political in the sense that the pre-conditions for this kind of behaviour have arisen within a society which is supposed to be protected and supported by government(s) (and I don't just mean welfare payments).  People who feel they have a stake in or an input into wider society don't burn down shops and nick stuff, as everyone here can testify.  People who feel that wider society is irrelevant to them have a far shorter journey to make to Curry's window (or to taxpayer bailouts for that matter).  That's where politics enters the equation - government has obviously failed any society when its people think this kind of shite is a fun activity (same as it has with rampant financial recklessness).

That doesn't mean that some swift kicks mightn't be well past due.

Anyway, it's obvious to me that the proximate cause is this news:  http://edition.cnn.com/2011/SHOWBIZ/Movies/08/09/dirty.dancing.remake/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn

[Stan]

I snapped part of my used car collection on the way home. Anybody want? I can do you a nice deal on the..er...thing.

[Leigh S]

Nonsense Tordelback - its clearly Swagger Jagger thats to blame.

I think you have summed up what I feel in a much less inflammatory way than I could say it!

We've allowed huge chunks of society to simultaneously be excluded from the mainstream and at the same time supported them in the alternative.  Theres no direct politics to the actions, but its politics that have allowed this to fester - I think both sides have a point - not enough stick and not enough carrot have created an element who frankly, if they hadnt had been doing this on a larger scale, would most likely have spent their night causing similar grief that would have gone uncommented on as it does night after night on every estate up and down the country. 

They arent doing it for food, they are certainly all designered up and the benefits system may be crap, but its often less crap than an actual job, and youre your own boss! - but theres a poverty of something going on that needs as Tordelback says, a big stick, and a few more carrots to make it so people do have an incentive to not do this - Some people will always tip into scummery wherever they come from (see bankers), but you should do your best as a society to make that choice less appealing. 

I'm from a scabby estate, and my family instilled in me values that kept me out of trouble.  But my family haven't seen their fortunes dramatically rise over the people who didnt have those values, so is it any wonder we have this?