Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance

[SmallBlueThing]

If they cut all the unnecessary violence and crap swearing ou of dredd, and realeased it as a 12A, then yes, id take the kids to it. But as a 15, i wont. :p

SBT

[radiator]

A 12A Dredd film wouldn't be a Dredd film, it would be a watered down mess like the 1995 movie - a film that couldn't decide whether it wanted to be a grown-up action film or a family-friendly blockbuster and ended up pleasing no one.

The very concept of the character is incompatible with it being a kid-friendly film. It's the tone and the ideas behind it that are problematic, rather than the blood or language. Dredd is a violent thug with few redeeming features who bullies and kills people. He ain't Batman - The Dark Knight got away with a lot because at the center of that film is a character who is unambiguously heroic and morally beyond reproach. Even if there were no explicit violence in DREDD it would still run into problems with the BBFC/MPAA because of the subject matter.

I'm hugely relieved that Dredd is being made for adults - in a world of 12A-certificate horror films, it seems that so few filmmakers have the balls to do likewise nowadays.

[Professor Bear]

A 12A Dredd film wouldn't be a Dredd film

This sounds to me like saying the non-graphic early Dredd tales aren't really Dredd tales.  Violence can be in a story without being shoved in the viewer's face for cheap gorno thrills, an approach which insults me a lot more than trying to find ways around being prurient for its own sake.

[radiator]

Perhaps you didn't read all of my post.

Dredd was still the same character even in the early days - a judge, jury and executioner. Violence itself isn't the issue - it's more that to get a 12A certificate, I would imagine that Dredd's role and character would have to be changed beyond recognition.

You'd basically end up with Lawman of the Future, and to me that isn't Dredd - it's a watered down pale imitation.

[CYCLOPZ]

Here's an article about what happens when they deliberately water down a movie for the kiddies. The woman in black . http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/1247430/are_young_cinema_audiences_ruining_the_woman_in_black.html

[SmallBlueThing]

So, spirit of vengeance: it's okay. Both my boys liked it, despite fidgetting through the eastern european thug opening. Best bits were ghostie pissing fire, and well, basically all the ghost rider bits, as youd expect. The 3D is useless, and youd miss nothing by going flat. Its spot the british character actor time, with anthony head as a monk, various other famous faces turning up at odd moments- and even christopher lambert doing a turn as a cenobite monk.
The important stuff: if you liked the first one, but felt it took too long to get going, and couldve done with being somehow fused to The Omen, then youll like this. It's bitty and unsatisfying, but has plenty of moments that are pretty cool.
Despite hearing a lot about the pair that directed this, i found it lacking in cohesive sense and coming over as a bit cod-sam raimi. Cage seemed pudgy and subdued throughout.

To my kids, however, it's currently the best thing ever.

SBT

[Karl Stephan]

If they cut all the unnecessary violence and crap swearing ou of dredd, and realeased it as a 12A, then yes, id take the kids to it. But as a 15, i wont. :p

SBT

Sorry, I can't think of any violence in the context of a Dredd movie to be unnecessary. If you want an innocuous parody of the concept, there's always the '95 flick.

[Professor Bear]

You'd basically end up with Lawman of the Future, and to me that isn't Dredd - it's a watered down pale imitation.

No joke, there was a Simon Frasier-drawn tale about a rookie in one of the LotFs that was hands-down better than any Dredd that had appeared in the prog for quite some time.  Fair play most of them were utter shite, but that was bad storytelling plain and simple, not the fault of the editorial limitations placed on the writers.

I did read your post, BTW, I was merely giving my tuppence on one point made within it.

[bigjobs67]

You've got a 'Tuppence'? I'll be after that. Lol

[Alski]

Let me say, for the record, that I am a fan of the Ghost Rider comics since i first picked one up back in the 70's. In case you haven't worked it out, I'm old, too, so this isn't a kids eye view you're getting here.

The first Ghost Rider movie did plenty right, but also a fair bit wrong, and I get the feeling that the people involved in GR:SOV are trying to bring more of the feel of the comics to the screen.

This may not have an adult rating, but there's plenty of death and destruction, although as it's mainly 'fantasy' violence (such as bad guys getting splattered into ashes by Ghostie's chains) I guess they didn't tick too many of the censor's 'naughty' boxes. It might be too much for younger kids, though, so don't say you weren't warned.

Plotwise, nothing gets too complicated. The agent of the Devil who made the original 'deal' with Johnny Blaze, Roarke, made another deal with a desperate, near death young woman, and fathered her child. Now the child, who is half demon, is thirteen, Roarke will pour himself into his body at the anointed time (there's ALWAYS a prophecy, huh?), which will be strong enough to contain him indefinitely (his human body isn't strong enough for his awesomeness, or something) and 'cast a shadow over the earth'. Nasty... and guess who has to stop him (in a rather Terminator 2 way, actually).

There's more, of course, including an actual decent villain this time round in the shape of Johnny Whitworth. Nic Cage plays Blaze as a man always trying to contain the rider, meaning he gets to do his 'I'm mad, me' act, the one he loves so much, although at least this time the character is straightforward and more fun for it. There's some nice little voice overs explaining the back stories of Blaze and the Rider himself, with nice comic graphics along the way. I won't ruin the ending, but I actually sat there and hoped for another sequel, as the Ghost Rider is given a whole new dimension.

So we have a basic but decent horror plot, good acting, excellent action sequences and a satisfactory ending. It's not perfect, and can drag a bit at times, but it's a solid, entertaining horror romp that sits up and begs for a follow up. As far as the 3D is concerned, don't go out of your way, as it's rarely more than functional.

7/10

[starscape]

Ghost Rider is my favourite 'superhero' (although he was always at his best when he was an anti-hero).  It's ok.  They didn't quite get GR at it's best, i.e. the whole angst of being possessed by a demon that Blaze is struggling to control.  Don't get me wrong there are hints and lines of travel to rid himself of the curse of the Ghost Rider.  But, if anyone's read GR v Circus of Crime (the two greatest superhero comics ever written IMHO), there isn't the 'punishing the innocent' complex and GR's desire to punish Blaze for secretly enjoying his curse, whilst hating it at the same time.

Having Zarathos as [spoiler]a fallen tortured angel[/spoiler] is a terrible idea.  In the comic, Zarathos burned souls, therefore depriving Mephisto of them.  So, in return, he punished the demon by making Zarathos subordinate to a human, i.e. Blaze.  Now isn't that a much better origin?

I've never got Cage as a great actor.  Script is pretty clichéd too.  That said, not a bad film.  However, I'm sure it could have been better if they treated it in the same way as the X-Men or Batman movies - that is, dead straight.