Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace 3D

[bigjobs67]

I fuckin hate CGI! FACT!!!

[Richmond Clements]

I fuckin hate CGI! FACT!!!

Why?

[TordelBack]

Tordelback. You missed out, "some of the worst dialogue ever committed to film, delivered with all the passion and dramatic reasonance of a speak and spell" in your review. 

I'm sure I mentioned it was a Star Wars film?  I assumed a certain level of knowledge from my audience - should I also have pointed out it's set in a galaxy far far away?

I think you're just projecting personalities onto them.

Well yeah, I'm viewing it with 13 years' worth of retrospect and 20 years worth of anticipation, so I'm afraid 'projecting' is a given.  Not much I can do about that now, and I do acknowledge that a great deal of anyone's appreciation of the film depends on foreknowledge, which is one of its biggest sins (for another, see the paragraph above too!).  It's certainly true that Obi-Wan is a virtual blank, whose only visible trait is a certain superiority and a stated respect for the Council, but he has another 3+ movies to develop a personality, so I don't mind that's a bit of a formless scrote here.  However:

We're told that Qui Gon is something of an outsider and hippy, but we're not given anything to back that up in anything he actually does.

I would disagree that there's no evidence in the film that QG is what we're told he is - he's seen to be feeling his way along through the Force throughout and urges others not to think but to act, asserting that he 'feels certain' about things he could have no rational knowledge of, making prophetic utterances, acquiring unconventional traveling companions (with the implication that he does this sort of thing a lot), constantly urging patience and passivity, and stopping to meditate in the middle of a fight - that's 'hippy' enough for me. 

As to being an outsider, in all his interactions with his peers he is constantly at odds with their opinions and rules - granted this is in the form of conversations, rather than actions, but there are a lot of them, and many refer to a long history.  There's a strong element of tell, not show, but within the linear confines of a film that separates him from all but his apprentice for most of its running time, it's hard to see how that could be otherwise.  I certainly buy it completely, and that's even though QG is one of the least explored of the characters in other media.   

He chooses to go against the council and train Anakin, but only because of some laughably vague plot device prophecy.

The vaguer the prophecy the better - another major (legitimate) complaint made against the film is the introduction of an 'explanation' for the Force (although I'd argue it's no such thing), if this is so objectionable why would we want the vagueness of a prophecy spelled out?  I do think it would have been nice to have some form of an explanation in Episode III, which fails to deliver so many things that were patently its job, but that's hardly Episode I's fault.  It looks like that role is being assigned to The Clone Wars cartoon, and I look forward to it, but an unexplored mystery motivation in the 'first' film is no real problem, IMO. 

The new CGI largely saves Frank Oz's lacklustre work on Yoda.
TKE THAT FUCKIN BACK RIGHT NOW!!!!

Ah c'mon.  The TPM Yoda puppet was vile and allegedly almost impossible to operate, and probably as a result Frank Oz (who I normally worship) gives a barely coherent performance throughout - at least with an expressive CGI version his Yoda just about resembles the one from Empire.  It's a massive improvement on what was there before, and at least they didn't re-dub his lines with Tom Kane (although the temptation must have been there).

[locustsofdeath!]

The TPM Yoda puppet was vile and allegedly almost impossible to operate.

The only puppet in the entire series that was worse than TPM Yoda was Hayden.

[radiator]

I'm sure I mentioned it was a Star Wars film?

While the OT contains some pretty naff dialogue, it also contains a hell of a lot of great dialogue. "It's a Star Wars film" is no defence.

The vaguer the prophecy the better - another major (legitimate) complaint made against the film is the introduction of an 'explanation' for the Force (although I'd argue it's no such thing), if this is so objectionable why would we want the vagueness of a prophecy spelled out?  I do think it would have been nice to have some form of an explanation in Episode III, which fails to deliver so many things that were patently its job, but that's hardly Episode I's fault.

I meant more that the whole 'prophecy' thing is just incredibly lazy, contrived writing. There's an element of soap-opera writing about the prequels - the plot dictating what the characters do and say rather than the other way round - there's a million other examples of this throughout the prequels. All the characters just feel that they're going through the motions.

[TordelBack]

"It's a Star Wars film" is no defence.

There should have been a winking smiley at the end of that bit - I do agree with you, but equally, I think there's some half-decent dialogue in TPM, just not teh vast majority - I certainly wouldn't claim otherwise.  A lot of the stuff in Episode IV is terrible, viewed objectively - if such a thing were ever possible - although it's saved by some heavy hitters and a lot of heart.

I meant more that the whole 'prophecy' thing is just incredibly lazy, contrived writing. There's an element of soap-opera writing about the prequels - the plot dictating what the characters do and say rather than the other way round - there's a million other examples of this throughout the prequels. All the characters just feel that they're going through the motions.

Yeah, no arguments there.  The relentlessly teleological way the Prequels are written is one of the most disappointing things about the whole project.  I do feel TPM is the least guilty of this sin, since at least at the end you're left with the feeling that the story could do all sorts of thing from that point on (and still get everyone to Epsiode IV)... only it never really does. 

[bigjobs67]

I fuckin hate CGI! FACT!!!

Why?

Okay not all. Used in a discrete and subtle way as an enhancement to a films it has its place (I suppose) but for me it's largely a soulless clinical thing that does my head after about twenty seconds. I want realness. I want vast sets and insanely detailed miniatures. I want an army of beardy nerds bulidin shit using materials that when breathed in will shorten their life span by about two years.

[von Boom]

Lucas has no conscience. Just saw the TPM novel tie-in was in the bookshops. I wonder if it's in 3d too? If the book must be worse than the film.

JvB

[bigjobs67]

Man alive. He is one greedy motherfucker!

[Spaceghost]

I have a great deal of respect for you Mr. Tordelback. In a way, I'm impressed by your sheer bloody-minded, pig-headed refusal to see The Phantom Menace for what it is - an utterly broken disaster of a film which fails on every level, rendering itself completely unwatchable.

It's a fervent blindness to every available fragment of factual evidence usually only found in religious fundamentalists.

Long may your brain continue to paper over the vast cracks apparent in the Star Wars prequels in order that you may forever enjoy these deeply shit films.

It's a tough, thankless job but someone's got to do it. Thank's for taking one for the team.

Tordelback - We salute you!


PS - I don't mean any offense, just a bit of light ribbing.

[JOE SOAP]

I fuckin hate CGI! FACT!!!

I fuckin' hate smilies! Fact.

[bigjobs67]

I fuckin hate CGI! FACT!!!

I fuckin' hate smilies! Fact.

[JOE SOAP]

I noo you'd say that.

[radiator]

As bad as the prequels plainly are, I can't say I don't get any enjoyment out of them.

I went to see all three at the cinema, getting totally sucked into the hype again and again, still own Episodes II and III on DVD, and I've watched them all a few times each. As time goes by and memory fades I'm finding them less and less tolerable though - as I said above I just can't sit through Phantom Menace any more.

They must have something going for them - great music and visuals (design rather than execution, admittedly). A few neat ideas here and there, and some pretty watchable - though flawed - action scenes. Maybe I just enjoy picking over them and deconstructing them to see what went wrong, imagining what might have been... I think a lot of us are in the same boat if we're honest.

So I'll never say that I hate the prequels, but I know that they're not good movies - if they weren't in any way connected with the old Star Wars films I doubt I'd have given them the time of day.

Same goes for the Matrix sequels.

[TordelBack]

It's a fervent blindness to every available fragment of factual evidence usually only found in religious fundamentalists.

Long may your brain continue to paper over the vast cracks apparent in the Star Wars prequels in order that you may forever enjoy these deeply shit films.

Now you're getting it!  It mightn't surprise you to know that I was pretty religious as a young teenager, and am an equally passionate atheist as an adult, so Star Wars is probably the methadone-equivalent for my former habit of believing in unbelievable things, despite all evidence to the contrary...

(Also, I do actually enjoy (most of) the films, and their daffy universe, which has been running in my head for 35 years now).