Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace 3D

[JOE SOAP]

That's no excuse for bad storytelling in the prequels just cos it's for ten year olds. Don't they deserve better?

Are you suggesting that the dialogue in any of the original Star Wars trilogy was "better"?

No, I never suggested that or anything, dialogue is not storytelling. Storytelling as in structure, meaning, pacing, dramatic beats and even adequate direction from Lucas/Kirshner/Marquand plus actual 'acting'. The original SW films are fairly simple yet make story sense quite elegantly, not filled with windbags who spout clunky unresolved/unimportant plotpoints/expostition in endless two-shots and little visual dynamism or connective tissue. It may be working on the level of simplistic folk-tales but at least it had folk-tale logic which the prequels fail to attain. ROTJ only fails cos they failed to capitalise on the story but still managed to pull through with the emotion. Ain't much emotion in the prequels other than relief that it's over.

[JOE SOAP]

When our parents took us to see Star Wars they didn't exactly get much out of it -- you don't see many people over 50 (now) still raving about it the same way as our generation does.  To them it was just a kids' film that didn't really offer much for adults.  Sound familiar?

The adults in my family enjoyed them immensely, that's partly why they took us and to all the other well-made kids films in the 80's.

[SuperSurfer]

... you don't see many people over 50 (now) still raving about it the same way as our generation does.  To them it was just a kids' film that didn't really offer much for adults.

But you do see many people almost 50 still raving about it. Some of them even frequent this forum.

Not me, honest.

[radiator]

Are you suggesting that the dialogue in any of the original Star Wars trilogy was "better"?  That there was dramatic depth in a fairy tale about heroes rescuing a princess, or teddy bears saving the universe whilst worshipping a camp golden robot?

Sorry but I'm not having that. The dialogue in the OT - not it's strongest suit, admittedly - is still infinitely better than the prequels. Just compare the interplay between Han/Leia to that of (shudder) Anakin/Padme....

When our parents took us to see Star Wars they didn't exactly get much out of it -- you don't see many people over 50 (now) still raving about it the same way as our generation does.  To them it was just a kids' film that didn't really offer much for adults.  Sound familiar?

I'll refer again to the time I watched the Star Wars films with my girlfriend last year. She'd never seen a SW film in her life so came to the whole thing completely cold, but while she loved the originals, she could only stand about ten minutes of Phantom Menace.

[Beaky Smoochies]

I think it's more of a case of someone dashing off a script in one draft with no editorial control.

Now THERE'S someone who's captured the prequel's main problem(s) in a nutshell!  TPM had the most scriptwriting time of all three episodes - around two-and-a-half years, all told - but was terribly unfocused and a narrative shambles (and don't get me started on the dialogue), which is Lucas' achilles heel and the reason why he absolutely should have gotten other screenwriters to help shape the final screenplay(s), the way he did with the original trilogy, Lucas himself said years before that he hates writing and that when he sits down to write he "bleeds all over the page", metaphorically speaking. AotC and RotS had their respective first-drafts hammered out THREE MONTHS before production began, the fact they turned out as good as they did (all things considered) is testament to Lucas' considerable imagination and storytelling talents. 

For my two cents, if Lucas had written story outline treatments for all three prequel episodes in advance, and just jumped into pre-production on each respective episode by hiring a screenwriter to start work on the actual screenplay, as well as beginning work on conceptual designs, chances are the scripts, and by extension the final films, would have been better... as would hiring a proper editor to shape a tight and focused final cut, not to mention ILM working (almost) exclusively on each respective episode so each and every effects shot is given the proper time and attention to detail in order to realise it's fullest potential, but I'll finish right here, as I could go about this subject all week...

[TordelBack]

I've seen Phantom Menace half a dozen times and I've no idea who Chancellor Zod is. Unless it's Charles Dance.

And it was my dad who wanted to see Star Wars. I was too young (4/5) to have been aware of it.

Sorry Cosh, I was unfunnily linking Chancellor Valorum with General Zod of Superman II fame, but I could have gone with Bernadette.

And indeed, both my parents (pushing 70) loved Star Wars - I remember my Dad being hugely enthusiastic about it at the time -  and my mother still does.  The prequels not at all, although my mother tries to understand them so she can communicate with her grandson... poor dear.

In fact it's interesting that they still enjoy and even rewatch a lot of the kids' films we would have dragged them to in that period - Raiders, ET, Superman even Krull. 

[vzzbux]

Sorry but I'm not having that. The dialogue in the OT - not it's strongest suit, admittedly - is still infinitely better than the prequels. Just compare the interplay between Han/Leia to that of (shudder) Anakin/Padme....

There is a huge gulf in acting skills between Ford/Fisher and Wooden/Woodener.
This was a problem throughout the prequels the Main stars just didn't have the ability to propel their characters or play off each other. The interplay in ESB between Ford and Fisher just seems so natural. I know I am repeating Radiator but this needs to be enforced. Sorry Mr McGregor but this includes you.
McDiarmid excluded. I thought he came into his own in ROTS.




V

[TordelBack]

I don't think it's necessarily acting ability that's the problem - on the face of it the prequels have a really great cast, poor Jake Lloyd and disastrously miscast Hayden Christensen aside. Even Natalie Portman is almost certainly a stronger actor than Carrie Fisher - she even did the 'superhero's girlfriend' role proud in Thor.  The issue is their charmless performances - and here they all, possibly bar Neeson and McDiarmid, let themselves down badly, blame for which is frequently laid at the Director's feet, and having seen footage of the filming I can believe it. 

Maybe what was required was an Alec Guinness figure, someone who was bigger than the production, could mentor his colleagues and could challenge and influence Lucas.  The problem with TPM was that no-one was bigger than the production.

[radiator]

There is a huge gulf in acting skills between Ford/Fisher and Wooden/Woodener.
This was a problem throughout the prequels the Main stars just didn't have the ability to propel their characters or play off each other.

Bollocks - it's the script and the direction at fault, not the actors - there's no actor alive who could have made anything meaningful of the truly horrendous Anakin/Padme courtship/love scenes.

"You are so... beautiful."
"It's only because I'm so in love."
"No, it's because I'm so in love with you."
"So love has blinded you?"
"[laughs] Well, that's not exactly what I meant."
"But it's probably true."

The entire cinema was in stitches during the scene above. I'm guessing that's not the result Lucas was going for?

Compare and contrast with:

"I love you".
"I know".

Short, sweet, and full of meaning and character. A line of soppy (improv'd ISTR) dialogue becomes one of the most memorable and enduring things in a space fantasy adventure movie.

There's really no contest.

[Spaceghost]

And there's this absolutely laughable attempt at heartfelt dialogue -

Anakin Skywalker: From the moment I met you, all those years ago, not a day has gone by when I haven't thought of you. And now that I'm with you again... I'm in agony. The closer I get to you, the worse it gets. The thought of not being with you- I can't breath. I'm haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me. My heart is beating... hoping that kiss will not become a scar. You are in my very soul, tormenting me... what can I do?- I will do anything you ask. If you are suffering as much as I am, please tell me.

HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

[TordelBack]

I confess that the 'next scene' button on the DVD remote always gets a workout in the middle of Attack of the Clones... 

Although I have been to Villa Balbianello (the location for many of the worst lines in cinema history), and it is very lovely.  Not coarse and rough and irritating. 

[Goaty]

Oh those 5 new posters so crap, whynot kept the original poster??

[TordelBack]

Jeebus wept, I know George is a skinflint, but he didn't have to do the photoshop himself.  Exactly one of those is just about passable, and the rest look like banners from the less-popular fan-sites ca. 1999.  Doesn't help that everyone pictured looks utterly bored.

What the hell has happened to LFL's publicity department, every DVD cover and poster since the original TPM outing has been dog vomit.  There was a time you could fill coffee-table books with their glorious promo art, now it's shoddily cropped and comped stills, some dodge and a lens flare. They have such talent at their disposal, why not use it?  I look at the glorious work being done on environments and lighting in The Clone Wars, and all the beautiful pre-production sketches, and then I look at the blurry images in the most recent Vehicles book, and the static gormlessness of the most recent boxsets, and I have to assume that there's no overlap of any kind in quality control. BAH!

[von Boom]

Doesn't help that everyone pictured looks utterly bored.

Just as well. The audience will be bored near to tears. At least they can take a nap during the pod race.

JvB

[radiator]

The podrace one is just about OK, but the rest of them are cack - especially the top one, which is insanely, laughably bad.