Wacom Cintiq, any good?

[radiator]

Tried the iPad thing - couldn't stand it. Sorely missed the flexibility and precision of Photoshop.

Thanks for the tips though. I've never actually used a cintiq. I'm guessing the Companion is a little more portable though, right?

[Jim_Campbell]

I'm guessing the Companion is a little more portable though, right?

As I understand, the Companion is completely portable, but as you note, the downside of that is that's a machine in its own right and needs its own licensed versions of whatever software. The always-reliable Ray Frenden gives his the thumbs up and specifically cites the ability to "draw anywhere", so I'm assuming it's portable enough to cart about with you...

Cheers

Jim

[antodonnell]

In the interest of highlighting a different angle. Why even go Wacom ? There are many other reasonably priced and comparable options out there. Granted there's no multi touch or the wacom brand but I've recently tried one of the Bosto 22 HD tablets alongside a 21UX cintiq and marginally preferred drawing on the Bosto.

I was in the market for a Cintiq but ended up going with a Bosto which I'll be ordering soon.

Here's the link if you're interested there are many reviews etc online about it.

http://bosto-tablet.com/models/22hd/

[Jim_Campbell]

I agree that Cintiqs are over-priced. Built into that price, though, is solid build quality, decent colour calibration (about 5000 pages a year go to press off my system and the number of pages that vary to any significant degree rarely gets into double digits in any given year) and a three-year on site warranty.

I fully appreciate that not everyone attaches the same value to these things as I do, and I'm not claiming they justify they hefty price tag.

Cheers

Jim

[antodonnell]

They are all valid reasons to go for Wacom. I have read the Bosto customer care can be hit and miss. For me the Bosto is a decent alternative for hobbyists that'll get similar results.

The colour calibration side of things can be tested as soon as I get my hands on my own.

From the one I tested it was more vibrant less washed out than the Cintiq. How that relates to print is unknown for now. I just like to see some competition in the marketplace as it'll push companies to improve the hardware regularly.

[Jim_Campbell]

They are all valid reasons to go for Wacom. I have read the Bosto customer care can be hit and miss. For me the Bosto is a decent alternative for hobbyists that'll get similar results.

I'll confess that Ray Frenden's review would have me giving the thing a very wide berth. The review is from the back end of last year, but I'd be very cautious about plonking down cash when "[he's] never reviewed a single piece of art hardware that was this nonfunctional."

Mind you, I think you're on a Windows system aren't you, Ant? Consensus seems to be driver support is at least better than non-existent for Windows.

Edit to add: Yiynova produced a range of well-reviews and much more reasonably priced Cintiq-alternatives, but no one seems to have any stock of the damn things.

Cheers

Jim

[antodonnell]

Heh,

I had read that review and was also wary but he had the older model the new 22HD+ has resolved these issues. I tried the newer model out last week side by side with a Cintiq 21UX and was very pleased with the Bosto.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL8t_PUw08w

Yeah I've a windows setup. I had also started my search for alternatives looking at the Yiynova but did have the issue of finding one.

[Jim_Campbell]

I tried the newer model out last week side by side with a Cintiq 21UX and was very pleased with the Bosto.

Cool. Nothing better than hands-on experience. If I'd had hands-on with the original 12" Cintiq, I'd never have bought it.

From the one I tested it was more vibrant less washed out than the Cintiq.

For print, 'washed out' is pretty much what you want. I have a hell of a time explaining to people that their monitors have the contrast waaaay too high for any kind of print work — the blacks are always too black and the whites too white.

Cheers

Jim

[antodonnell]

Initially as budget dictates I was looking at a 13HD. Luckily at work I'm surrounded by fellow artists someone in the office always has the latest toy. I've been sampling tablets for the last few weeks and reading reviews before making a purchase. I don't have the space in the apartment for many monitor/tablets. Just one

Even our resident concept artist who has a Cintiq at home and at work was impressed with the quality of the Bosto for the price. He's been regular Cintiq user for years.


I'm mainly getting mine for digital art/ sculpting and digital comic work. With that said any information regarding monitor set-up for print would be amazing.

Do you use any sort of monitor calibration software and or hardware ? I'd imagine that's for a whole other thread.

Thanks for the input and different viewpoint.

[Banners]

Do you use any sort of monitor calibration software and or hardware ? I'd imagine that's for a whole other thread.

Interested in this. Got my monitor 'calibrated' once and it looked shit. Bought a new factory-calibrated monitor last month which looks terrible in Adobe RGB mode so I have used custom settings (I opt for a somewhat pale look too). I know calibration and colour management are things I should take serioulsy but it all seems like something of mystery to me.

[Jon]

Do you use any sort of monitor calibration software and or hardware ? I'd imagine that's for a whole other thread.

Interested in this. Got my monitor 'calibrated' once and it looked shit. Bought a new factory-calibrated monitor last month which looks terrible in Adobe RGB mode so I have used custom settings (I opt for a somewhat pale look too). I know calibration and colour management are things I should take seriously but it all seems like something of mystery to me.

I've got a friend who owns a fairly successful graphic design company, and I asked him about calibration and, after a fairly lengthy explanation, he conceded that ultimately it's all still a bit of a punt (though I have no doubt people will tell me he's very wrong). I used to do a fair bit of photography, and tried for years to find some sort of alchemy between monitors, home printer and the rest of the world.

I gave up in the end. I now work on three monitors, more by legacy than design. One of them is fairly shit, and I try and make sure whatever I'm doing looks at least okay on that one. I bought a Cintiq 13HD, and it's bloody fantastic (and easy to stick in a  bag if I'm ever forced to go and work in an office) and has probably tripled my work-rate. It seems to give a pretty reliable print preview too. As I also enjoy the Intuous work-flow (after many years of indoctrination) this allows me to flip monitors at a button press. My beautiful, great-quality monitor I switched down down from Adobe RGB to sRGB as everything looked amazing on it and terrible on absolutely everything else.

I concede It's probably not ideal, but until someone gives me the magic formula for perfect previews, it all seems to work. Kind of.

[Jim_Campbell]

Yeah... monitor calibration is a real crap-shoot, compounded by the fact the even if you're lucky enough to have a colour profile for the exact press your work will end up on, there's no guarantee that the guy(s) operating the press will actually know what they're doing and your job may still end up looking like shit and the printers will never, ever admit they've fucked it up.

My best calibration advice? If you can get a physical sample of something similar to the intended end product in terms of press and paper type and a copy of the digital file that was used to print it, hold the print next to the monitor and tweak the monitor settings until the file on screen looks like the one in your hand. Do this in relatively neutral light (I'd advise indirect natural light on an overcast day) and you shouldn't be a million miles from where you need to be.

Cheers

Jim

[Banners]

even if you're lucky enough to have a colour profile for the exact press your work will end up on...

I've never understood how this is supposed to be feasible. If you're working on several different projects in any given day, and all of them will end up at different printers, are you supposed to keep swapping colour profiles and recalibrating your monitor?

[Jim_Campbell]

I've never understood how this is supposed to be feasible. If you're working on several different projects in any given day, and all of them will end up at different printers, are you supposed to keep swapping colour profiles and recalibrating your monitor?

Yep. Crap shoot. I know pretty much 100% Cyan and 100% Magenta should look like under most circumstances, plus a couple of other common colour mixes (C20M100Y100 red, for example) so as long as they look about right and the BG white in PS/AI/ID doesn't look too fluorescent on the monitor, I figure it'll probably be OK...!

Cheers

Jim

[Professor Bear]

Tried the iPad thing - couldn't stand it. Sorely missed the flexibility and precision of Photoshop.

I don't know how married you are to the idea of specifically going for a Cintiq for sofa-based drawing, but Finnish webcomic artist Minna Sundberg ( http://www.sssscomic.com/ ) apparently works in MS5 either via a desktop with a 12WX or a Samsung ATIV 700T tablet pc and gets seemingly identical results from either setup.  I imagine going from the tiny working area of the 12WX to a tablet pc's screen is not that much of a step down, but if you work on a HD Cintiq it might be like sketching in a Poundland jotter.