Which Tablet?

[IndigoPrime]

Thing is, if you're looking at risk, you must look at history. So far, one iPad is unsupported by the latest iOS: the original one, released in April 2010. It is, however, still supported by the vast, vast majority of devs. By the time they en masse start requiring iOS 6, the original iPad will be at least three years old. I also suspect/hope this will be an outlier, and probably down to Apple wanting to keep its bill of materials down in the original model, which was, remember, a massive risk at the time. (The sole problem, according to devs, is the original iPad's lack of RAM impacting on its ability to push pixels, hence why the iPhone 3GS can run iOS 6 but the iPad 1 can't. Subsequent iPads have a more sensible amount of RAM.) Beyond that one admittedly big issue for owners of the original iPad, Apple pushes the new OS over the air to all devices at once. Everyone that can get it has the opportunity.

By contrast, only Microsoft comes close to matching this with its Windows 8 tablets (which are essentially the same price as Apple kit anyway). Elsewhere, RIM's dead as Jim noted, and Android is a mess. Plenty of Android devices come with old versions of the OS that can't easily be upgraded, in part because manufacturers add their own crap over the top of the vanilla experience; and Android devices have a terrible track record for enabling you to upgrade the OS—even Google not being anywhere near perfect about this. Fortunately, devs tend to not barrel ahead in requiring the latest OS, which is just as well because only a tiny fraction of users are able to run it. The knock-on effect there is, as Jim puts it, gimping the features, in order to ensure apps will work on devices (including new ones) that aren't or won't run the latest OS.

Of the BlackBerry that's on offer and a Nexus, I'd go for the latter without a second's thought. The Nexus is a decent tablet, after all. But don't be concerned that Apple will suddenly stop supporting the iPad mini or iPad 4 in a year, because that's just not going to happen. (The iPad 2, I'd say, is on borrowed time, but then the same would be true of any 18-month-old Android tablet you buy. Still, with 512 MB of RAM and no Retina display, it's likely the iPad 2 will run iOS 7. I wouldn't recommend buying one though—get one of the newer models if you go for an iPad.)

[IndigoPrime]

Basically I have an Iphone 3gs which 90% of the Apps - such as Dredd v ZOmbies- doesnt allow to download on to, and I cant update the OS anymore.

In which case, you should probably contact Apple support. The iPhone 3GS supports iOS 6, and therefore the OS should download and run fine. (iOS 6.1 beta is confirmed to work with it, too.) Games are another matter—many require the iPhone 4 or newer, because games typically require a system with more clout. This isn't any different on other smartphone platforms, nor other gaming platforms when you look at it generationally. You can't run 3DS games on your DS, nor Xbox 360 games on your Xbox.

Its not like its THAT old.

The iPhone 3GS is now over three years old. It's still supported by Apple (which compares very favourably with the vast majority of Android devices, many of which get no major OS upgrades—by contrast, the iPhone 3GS shipped with iOS 3 (then called iPhone OS 3), and so has had three major OS upgrades during its life. Compared to a PC, that might be low; compared to other smartphones, it's almost unheard of.

I think Apples marketing strategy seems pointed toward those that can afford to be fashionable.

There's some truth in that, but Android smartphones are significantly more disposable on the market. A ton of manufacturers ship them with an old OS and don't enable any upgrades at all. There's less 'fashion' (although more so recently, especially from Samsung) in that market, but plenty of "upgrade for [new specs]".

I guess I think Apple develop stuff SO quickly, you have to play catch up, a game Im not interested in for the most part. If I spent 400 quid on something, Id like more than a season of use before its made to feel like its a poor relative of the latest.

A season of use? When did you buy your iPhone 3GS, then? I got two years' use out of mine before selling it for over 100 quid and upgrading to an iPhone 4S (which I imagine will also do me fine for at least two years, like every other iOS device I've ever bought).

Also, I often write for the Mac press and so am baffled by the Macs issue you mention. I know plenty of people using old Macs and they're perfectly usable running an older OS. In fact, at least a couple of major publishers are running old versions of the OS and cranking out magazines. The monitors issue is different, although I can't really comment on that without knowing which Macs and monitors were involved. (Typically, Apple hasn't been fast enough at getting adapters into the wild, although for both the Thunderbolt display and LED Cinema Display, it's been a matter of a few weeks before adapters ended up in stock on the Apple Store.)

[radiator]

You can't run 3DS games on your DS, nor Xbox 360 games on your Xbox.

That isn't really a fair comparison, given the relative life-cycles (much longer) and cost (much lower) of consoles vs smartphones/tablets.

Having said that, I broadly agree with you - I got an iPhone 4 in May 2011, and it's still going strong and is almost 100% supported in terms of Apps and firmware. I fully expect to still be using it far into next year, and 2+ years seems reasonable for a phone these days. Plus, just because a device is no longer widely supported doesn't mean it is suddenly useless - far from it.

I've also got a good three years use out of my iMac so far and have no need or desire to upgrade any time soon.

[JohnMcF]

Well my 4 year old iPhone 3G works a treat and I'm typing this on my 6 year old Mac pro with two 11 year old Apple monitors attached.

[JTurner]

Looks like a race between a Blackberry Tablet on offer and a Nexus for me ( I dont feel happy paying Apple prices knowing the chances are half of it won't be supported in a year etc etc)

Eh? That makes no sense whatsoever! RIM is a company with a VERY uncertain future, so support for Blackberry products is dependent on them a) not going bust or b) not getting bought out the moment their share value falls below the book value of their assets and strip-mined by an investment company.

Android, meanwhile, continues to fork and fragment in ways baffling to the everyday consumer and Google has shown itself capable of being every bit as capricious as Apple.

That said, Apple have been pretty solid about supporting older versions of iOS devices and obsolescence is generally a function of hardware advances rather than some mercurial decree from on high. Or would you rather Apple gimped the features in the current software/hardware spec to ensure back compatibility to its oldest devices?

Plenty of reasons not to like Apple, but this one seems illogical.

Cheers

Jim

Absolutely agree re the Blackberry, especially as they use their own flavour of apps.
I think that Google are as big a bunch of scumbags as Apple, but iPads are overpriced in a designer coat kind of way - they're no warmer than any other coat, it's all about the image they project.

[radiator]

it's all about the image they project.

Erm, so people only buy designer coats because of the 'image they project'? Maybe those people appreciate aesthetics, design, comfort - the tactile, tangible feel of a high-quality product? The fact that it complements other clothes they might own?

Apple products are expensive, they are not - evidently, as they seem to be doing alright - overpriced.

[Jim_Campbell]

but iPads are overpriced in a designer coat kind of way

How quickly people forget that in the run up to the original iPad launch, the speculation was whether Apple would be able to price it at less than a thousand dollars.

No one producing a tablet with similar build quality, battery life and specs has been able to significantly undercut Apple on price. Now, if you don't need one or more of those things, or are happy to them trade-off against price, more power to you -- there are lots of options available to you. If you want to be able to side-load applications, or mess about with the system, or connect off-the-shelf USB devices, or have direct access to the filesystem, then the iPad isn't for you, either.

There are loads of reasons not to buy one (I don't have one -- I simply can't find a use case for it) and price is certainly one of them, but claiming that the iPad is over-priced doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Cheers

Jim

[Teivion]

In fairness to Apple, they are Apple....they stand alone as a brand.
Android is everyone else, and that's ALOT of individual companies all releasing products etc too-  so Apple gets noticed for being the one-off.

Ive never heard anyone say they cant use something because its on the wrong Android system, and I guess Apple has the customer market cornered for their own brand.

I suppose Ive had trouble with anything as soon as it starts going v4.1, v4.2 etc ( I've got Windows update turned off any everything seems fine for the last year for example, although all Firefox, Flash etc update every other month. )

I think with Apple you are not buying just a product but also into a brand, and one you have to subscribe to, as it were.

Anyway, Tablets...sorry for the derail...

[IndigoPrime]

Apple products are expensive, they are not - evidently, as they seem to be doing alright - overpriced.

Quite. It's about value and quality, not price. The same kind of thing exists everywhere in life: cars, instruments, media, even food. With Apple, you at least know that you're paying for something with high quality and also where you're the customer (versus other manufacturers, where corners are cut, or where advertisers are the real customer, or where profits on hardware are ditched in favour of clawing back money in some other way).

Android is everyone else, and that's ALOT of individual companies all releasing products etc too-  so Apple gets noticed for being the one-off.

Apple also gets noticed for being the first company to do this kind of device in the way everyone is now doing it, and for—generally speaking—releasing the highest quality units.

Ive never heard anyone say they cant use something because its on the wrong Android system

I speak with developers quite often, and they have a hell of a time with compatibility. As for never hearing anyone say they can't use something, try checking out any open thread when a major game's released on Android. It's like a car crash. (iOS has compatibility issues, too, but the level of fragmentation is much lower.)

I think with Apple you are not buying just a product but also into a brand, and one you have to subscribe to, as it were.

But that's largely the case with all tablets now. iOS works better if you fall headlong into Apple's system (iTunes Store, Apple TV, etc.), but Android hinges increasingly heavy on Google Play, Amazon's Android-based system is in reality more or less a kiosk for Amazon content, and Microsoft's RT devices are more or less following Apple's lead. Apple's certainly the most restricted (unless you jailbreak), but to counter that it also has by far the best selection of apps and games, so it's a trade off.

[JTurner]

Fairs fair to your replies. My problem with Apple stems from my professional dealings with them and their aggressive marketing to organisations like schools who frankly could spend their money more wisely. Also their attitude that they are doing you a favour by just speaking to you.

Jim - you actually managed to list all of the reasons why I hate working with Apple gear at work! Flexibility, especially when you need to improvise, is vital to me. Apple's walled garden is not for me.

My cousin on the other hand told me without irony that he enjoys "being part of the whole Apple experience" - eg he only buys Apple products and to him it's a lifestyle (hence my comment on the fashion statement). Good for him, but then he's well off enough to afford it.

They are a designer product, like Armani or a pair of Reeboks, where the price of the label is above and beyond the value of the product, this is far more pronounced in terms of their desktop computers when you take a look at the specs. 

[radiator]

My cousin on the other hand told me without irony that he enjoys "being part of the whole Apple experience" - eg he only buys Apple products and to him it's a lifestyle (hence my comment on the fashion statement). Good for him, but then he's well off enough to afford it.

Apple are fashionable, undoubtedly, but this doesn't mean everyone is like your cousin.

I use a Mac Pro every single day of my life for work, and I genuinely worry about Apple dropping the Pro and me having to switch to PCs, which are an absolute fucking nightmare in my experience - every single one I've ever owned - and every one friends or family of mine has owned - has had major issues and basically started to slowly die from day one.

[Jim_Campbell]

this is far more pronounced in terms of their desktop computers when you take a look at the specs.

With the exception of the Mac Pro, which is a fucking joke at the moment, the 'poor value for money' thing is in large part an artefact of Apple's unusually long product cycle. At launch, it's usually difficult to spec an equivalent Windows product significantly cheaper, but that assumes you'd make all the same choices as Apple. The screen in the current iMac, for example, is a very nice panel and if you wanted an equivalent monitor plus CPU box from Dell, you'd be in the same ball park on cost.* However, given the length of time between refreshes in the Apple product cycle, the alternatives quickly pull away from the Apple machine in cost and spec.

I will also say that, even now, as someone who works primarily in print, accuracy of display of both fonts and colours seem to be much more reliable out of the box on Macs than Windows machines. I realize that the number of people who actually give a shit about this is so small that it's barely a rounding error on any computer manufacturer's quarterly sales figures these days, but it matters to me!

Cheers

Jim



*Of course, what you don't have is the option to say "Screw it, I'll save a few quid and go with a cheaper monitor."

[pauljholden]

ys "being part of the whole Apple experience" - eg he only buys Apple products and to him it's a lifestyle (hence my comment on the fashion statement). Good for him, but then he's well off enough to afford it.

I've no idea if that's what he meant by "whole apple experience" (I'd interpret that to mean he buys all apple stuff cus it all works together rather it being a fashion statement) but in my experience having a "whole apple experience" actually means I can watch stuff on the ipad and have it display on my apple tv, while listening to music on my kids ipad from my desktop mac. In other words, the whole apple experience is that if you stick to only apple kit it all works easily together. (Not that we got and hang out at the apple store high fiving staff members while wearing apple logo'd t-shirts) My wife has a kindle HD fire and she's NOT part of this ecosystem - so, for example, can't watch the dvd's I've ripped ages ago for the iMac (and she can't send stuff she's watching to the apple tv).

-pj


-pj

[radiator]

So, can anyone recommend any must have Apps for iOS?

So far I've got, among others:

2000 AD
Comixology
GTA: Vice City
Dredd Vs Zombies
The Room
Guardian Eyewitness
Beatwave
Procreate
Paper
Accuweather

[Jim_Campbell]

So, can anyone recommend any must have Apps for iOS?

Sad to say, the real life-changers for me are incredibly mundane. First Direct have an excellent banking app which, coupled with the Paypal app, allows me to manage my money very effectively. The Tesco app is a little counter-intuitive, but their delivery service has killed the drudge of the weekly shop and the app means that you can update your order as soon as you remember that you need toothpaste instead of having to wait until you're back at your computer. The Cineworld app is also quite handy now it lets you advance book tickets with your Unlimited card.

As say, not exciting, but this stuff enables otherwise 'dead' time standing in queues and sitting on buses to be used productively.

Cheers

Jim