Digital readers are evil

[Dark Jimbo]

...but if you haven't read comics on the new ipad, you're being wilfully ignorant and a bit of a luddite to dismiss it out of hand (I know certain anti-digital people on this thread are being a bit tongue in cheek, but others seem quite serious).

I'm half tongue in cheek and half genuinely scared of it all.

I am a self-confessed luddite. Technology by and large frustrates, baffles and angers me. I was roundly mocked by my brother at Christmas for not understanding how to use my mum's supposedly 'easy to use' ipad but I hate touchscreen stuff and I simply don't like the mechanics of it. My mobile is 10 years old this year, and I'll try to get one exactly the same when it packs up; I tried to upgrade to a 'better' phone once and had to go back to the older model. I can't so much as text on other people's phones. I have an ipod but I hate the clumsy little scrolling wheel and would much rather have one with actual buttons. I stubbornly resisted all attempts from the lecturers at Uni to get me to use Photoshop for any artwork whatsoever, and the harder they pushed the less computer work I did. When someone tries to teach me a new technology I get a tight, panicky feeling in my chest and just want to get as far away from it as possible. And I'm not even 30! I do worry how much worse this is going to get.

I just don't see why people can't leave things as they are and not be constantly trying to 'improve' them.

Issues like the 'book smell' (though I understand where it comes from) are to me somewhat silly and irrelevant, and a lot of people seem to be really reaching for arguments against digital.

Guilty as charged. I do try to wrack my brains for reasons against digital whenever the subject comes up, but I've never really thought about why - and I suppose if I try and pin it down my kneejerk fear and hatred all basically boils down to a genuine worry that it's going to replace my beloved print, that one day there'll be no more bookshops to browse. If in 20 years the two are co-exisiting happily side by side (and I very much hope this happens) then I'll gladly eat my words - by which point I'll probably be living in a cave, composing angry letters to the Daily Mail on tablets of stone. Still, the future - scary, eh?

[Jim_Campbell]

I just don't see why people can't leave things as they are and not be constantly trying to 'improve' them.

Because we'd all still be living in caves?

Cheers

Jim

[Jim_Campbell]

I did wonder about how much money goes to the publisher/artists. Seems weird that Marvel and DC would bend over and take it. Maybe they get special terms?

I chewed this over on my blog a while back. I don't believe the basic facts of the situation have changed much since I wrote that...

Cheers

Jim

[JamesC]

...but if you haven't read comics on the new ipad, you're being wilfully ignorant and a bit of a luddite to dismiss it out of hand (I know certain anti-digital people on this thread are being a bit tongue in cheek, but others seem quite serious).

I'm half tongue in cheek and half genuinely scared of it all.

I am a self-confessed luddite. Technology by and large frustrates, baffles and angers me. I was roundly mocked by my brother at Christmas for not understanding how to use my mum's supposedly 'easy to use' ipad but I hate touchscreen stuff and I simply don't like the mechanics of it. My mobile is 10 years old this year, and I'll try to get one exactly the same when it packs up; I tried to upgrade to a 'better' phone once and had to go back to the older model. I can't so much as text on other people's phones. I have an ipod but I hate the clumsy little scrolling wheel and would much rather have one with actual buttons. I stubbornly resisted all attempts from the lecturers at Uni to get me to use Photoshop for any artwork whatsoever, and the harder they pushed the less computer work I did. When someone tries to teach me a new technology I get a tight, panicky feeling in my chest and just want to get as far away from it as possible. And I'm not even 30! I do worry how much worse this is going to get.

I just don't see why people can't leave things as they are and not be constantly trying to 'improve' them.

You have a similar attitude to my girlfriend which I always find incredibly frustrating.

It's entirely your choice whether you use new technology but to fear it and to actively avoid educating yourself about it just seems willfully stupid to me.

[Trout]

I used to read a lot and, due to a change in lifestyle, stopped. I tried to start again but never seemed to manage it. Then Kindle happened and I'm reading all the time now.

It's just right for me. It's comfortable to hold. I can adjust the text size and the lighting is perfect. I can buy books easily. Reading material's cheap enough that I don't feel pressured to finish books if I lose interest. I can dip in and out of books without having to carry lots around with me.

I feel very guilty about it, especially as I work in printed media, but my e-reader is perfect for me. I understand why others like paper books - fair enough; I hope you keep enjoying them - but digital has brought back my love of books.

- Trout

[I, Cosh]

Personally, I can see a lot more use in an iPad than a Kindle but that's because reading isn't one of the things I'd use the iPad for.

Out of interest, is there a significant difference in the price of digital vs print comics? I can easily see how someone like Adventurer is going to save himself the cost of his iPad in six months if there is.

Radiator mentioned having to delete/redownload content from Comixology. Are you not able to make your own separate backup of something you've already paid for?

I have no objection to digital content but a lot of the time it doesn't fit with the way I buy and consume books and comics. I go through a reasonable amount of books and that's probably split 40/30/30 between second hand, library and new. I bought two novels yesterday and, checking Amazon, the Kindle edition of each is maybe a pound less than the print version but that's still 4 or 5 quid more than I paid.

If I could be arsed, I could probably stick them both on eBay or Amazon marketplace and recoup most of that initial outlay. That's not something I really do with books but it is a consideration when I'm buying comics. I'll keep stuff I like but I'm always conscious, especially with TPBs, that I shouldn't have a problem getting something back from it if it's not a keeper. With digital copies there doesn't seem to be that option.

This could be my ignorance but it seems to me that one of the major downsides to digital media is that the vendor in some way retains control after you have paid for the product. With the lack of a secondary market reselling content my option is pirate it or pay the full price for a legitimate copy. I mentioned earlier concerns over the site you buy from going tits up. Maybe that's unlikely but how do you get a digital copy of a comic from a publisher who has since gone bust? What about the digital equivalent of Miracleman: when the work itself is subject to some dispute it becomes a simple matter to stop the sale of legitimate copies, so how do the interested get a copy without piracy?

I realise all these are pretty niche, theoretical cases but it's all part of a general paranoiac mistrust I have for some things. Coming soon: why the rumoured lockout of second hand games means I may never buy another console!

Literally flabbergasted that readers of a science fiction anthology are so afraid of new technology.

Never really get this objection. It's a bit like being surprised that fans of detective fiction don't really like murder.

[radiator]

You have a similar attitude to my girlfriend which I always find incredibly frustrating.

It's entirely your choice whether you use new technology but to fear it and to actively avoid educating yourself about it just seems willfully stupid to me.

Yeah, my sister does this whole flustered 'oh I don't understand all this modern technology' routine (she's only 31) to the point where it just becomes an affectation - a deliberate, conscious lifestyle choice to be fusty and behind the times (and what makes it more irritating is that I can't prize he away from my iPad, Mac and TV whenever she comes to visit). It's like people who don't own a TV, who in my experience only don't own a TV so they can tell people (at every available opportunity) that they don't own a TV, as if doing so makes them appear some sort of wild, creative bohemian academic living on the fringes of society.

With the phone thing, I understand it - in fact my last phone cost £5 and was pay as you go. I'm not a phone person and rarely used it other than texts and alarm clock, so the cheaper and the longer the battery lasted between charges the better. I could never understand the fascination with them, pre smartphone when they were just a means to an end, and I only got a modern phone when they reached the point where they could literally do thousands of different things and be genuinely useful in so many ways to me.

By the same token, while I'm no luddite I've never understood the fetishising of gadgets for gadgets sake - like my brother in law who is endlessly buying the latest handheld/camera/laptop etc etc, doesn't really do anything with it apart from fiddle with the settings and show it off, then after a few months it ends up in the garage gathering dust with all the other junk.

[I, Cosh]

I feel very guilty about it, especially as I work in printed media, but my e-reader is perfect for me. I understand why others like paper books - fair enough; I hope you keep enjoying them - but digital has brought back my love of books.

Cool. Reading is definitely the important part, however you do it. I actually feel a bit weird arguing against it because I've always felt the fetishisation of the object over the content - particularly talking about record collectors here - is idiotic.

[radiator]

especially with TPBs, that I shouldn't have a problem getting something back from it if it's not a keeper. With digital copies there doesn't seem to be that option.

But that was my main reason for going digital. I can now, on a whim, instantly download the first issue of a new series I've heard about (generally costing £1.49 but sometimes less or even free), and see if I like it, thereby cutting out the whole hassle of buying a trade, not liking it and having to go through the pain of selling it on to scrape some money back.

[Satanist]

I've only ever tried reading comics on PC and to be blunt it was shit. Scrolling about from panel to panel, zooming in on writing and totally fucked for double page spreads. I understand things are better now with handheld devices but I still like to see my prize sitting on a shelf once I've read it. I also don't think people here consider the entry price of buying I-pads*and whatnot before you've read/done anything can put people off, we're not all minted. I know you can do much more on them but so can all the other shit I have cluttering up the house.

Saying all that though I got the wife a kindle for xmas but haven't had a chance to fart about with it yet.

So erm aye I'm with Dr X on this one, for the moment.

*I won't be buying an I-pad anytime soon as I've witnessed too many good folk turn into elitist twats!

[IndigoPrime]

For me, this all boils down to convenience versus permanence. As others have said, the relatively fragile nature of digital media is a problem. If you're buying into an ecosystem and the ecosystem disappears, what then? The thing is, with the sheer wealth of media we have access to these days (i.e. most people are not just sitting there with a dozen albums and a few cherished and well-thumbed books), I'm not sure that even matters any more.

For me, shiny discs are over. I'm even reluctant to buy new stuff, because even the shoddy UK Netflix selection is keeping Mrs G and I busy in terms of tele. With music, I don't want more CDs, so I'd rather just download. DVDs: we have loads in shrinkwrap. We have seasons of Doctor Who we've never rewatched, because there's too much new stuff to view instead. There are exceptions: we often rewatch Firefly, West Wing and a few other shows; but even then, the former's on Netflix and the latter soon will be.

Books... Mrs G's happier with her Kindle for the most part, but I'm still the holdout when it comes to comics. With 2000 AD, I think it's in part because I want to support the company, and so I still subscribe to the paper version. I also have a slightly mad collector's mentality when it comes to that comic (and the Meg), but that is very rarely the case elsewhere.

Frankly, I'd be happy to buy most other comics in digital, but I think for collections I'd want them to be cheaper. If Walking Dead was, say, three or four quid per 'trade', I'd buy them all tomorrow. Having read the first two, I know I'll only read them once, so I wouldn't care if they were digital and might go away one day. But I'm not paying the same price that I can get them in stores for digital copies. By contrast, I know I'll re-read certain things (Usagi Yojimbo, Nikolai Dante) and so want those in paper. And a few things are so special to me that I'll happily pay for stupidly expensive editions, to cherish for as long as possible (Hellboy, Calvin and Hobbes).

In a more general sense, though, the trend is obvious. I was so glad when Rebellion put out its 2000 AD iPad app, because I was concerned the company might be not pushing into an area that's becoming increasingly important. In the event, it's one of the best comic apps out there, and, importantly, Rebellion itself controls everything. I really hope it's doing well for the company, although I suspect I'll only switch to it when Tharg one day tells us that the Dictators of Zrag have stolen all the paper and so the mag's going digital-only. (And I hope by then the iPad weighs half as much but also has the same or a longer battery life. That's really the holy grail in electronics, and it will happen sooner than we think.)

[radiator]

I've only ever tried reading comics on PC and to be blunt it was shit. Scrolling about from panel to panel, zooming in on writing and totally fucked for double page spreads. I understand things are better now with handheld devices

I once tried to read comics off a monitor and found it unbearable. There's a world of difference on a tablet.

I still like to see my prize sitting on a shelf once I've read it.

But why? Realistically speaking, how many more times are you going to read it? I want to have the classics on my shelf, but there's a lot of stuff that in all likelihood I'm only going to want to read once.

I also don't think people here consider the entry price of buying I-pads*and whatnot before you've read/done anything can put people off, we're not all minted. I know you can do much more on them but so can all the other shit I have cluttering up the house.

Well yes, I noted initial cost as a negative point. Also, you don't have to get an iPad - there are a whole range of tablets to suit most budgets and needs. The Kindle Fire HD is what? £250? Hardly out of the realms of possibility

[radiator]

Frankly, I'd be happy to buy most other comics in digital, but I think for collections I'd want them to be cheaper. If Walking Dead was, say, three or four quid per 'trade', I'd buy them all tomorrow. Having read the first two, I know I'll only read them once, so I wouldn't care if they were digital and might go away one day. But I'm not paying the same price that I can get them in stores for digital copies. By contrast, I know I'll re-read certain things (Usagi Yojimbo, Nikolai Dante) and so want those in paper. And a few things are so special to me that I'll happily pay for stupidly expensive editions, to cherish for as long as possible (Hellboy, Calvin and Hobbes).

Pretty much exactly how I feel about it - even down to your opinions on Dante, Usagi, Hellboy and C&H!

Definitely agree that digital 'trades' need to be cheaper - £3.99/£4.99 seems reasonable to me, depending on page count etc.

I also think if you've already bought issue one of a series and decide to get the trade you should get a discount.

I've also noticed a slight sloppiness - I've been reading a lot of the early B&W Ninja Turtles comics, and volume 4 seems to start really abruptly, as if I'd skipped a whole issue. Only found out when I got to the end of the book that the first and last issues had been swapped round, which bugged me a bit.

[Proudhuff]

You have a similar attitude to my girlfriend which I always find incredibly frustrating.
It's entirely your choice whether you use new technology but to fear it and to actively avoid educating yourself about it just seems willfully stupid to me.

my last phone cost £5 and was pay as you go. I'm not a phone person and rarely used it other than texts and alarm clock, so the cheaper and the longer the battery lasted between charges the better.

That's just an affectation - a deliberate, conscious lifestyle choice to be fusty and behind the times. People who don't own the latest phone, who in my experience don't own the latest phone so they can tell people (at every available opportunity) that they don't own the latest phone, as if doing so makes them appear some sort of wild, creative bohemian academic living on the fringes of society.









just joshing 

[Tiplodocus]

My missus is always reading but I never bought her a Kindle because she acquires books from friends, reads and passes them on. She hardly ever buys a book (I must have a word with her about that, the She Pirate Devil).

I foolishly went digital on my PC but never had time to read the Prog (well, I did really but I just kept getting "distracted" so maybe it was me just putting off an unpleasant experience). Then I got me Samsung tablet.

It's a ten incher and I can easily whip it out on the train to give me twenty minutes of undisturbed thrill power. 

Despite being smaller than the printed page and even though it's not a retina display thingy, some of the art springs to life when backlit. Really lovely to look at.

I quite like the simple trip to the Digital Prog shop on Wednesday night as well.  I think it saves me about 40p per prog (and I have over a hundred now so it's slowly paying for itself).

Plus, the tablet has become the go to browser in the house if anybody needs to look anything up quickly.

But like Cosh, I wouldn't take it out on a night out with me as I couldn't guarantee it's safety (oddly I do take my 3DS though).

Anyway, I download the prog as cbz and use Comic Rack to read. Still haven't cracked double page spreads yet. Is there a better tool for Prog Reading?

The idea of picking up THE BOYS as an omnibus might be a good one. I'm looking for something to fill the gap between Walking Dead trades (which I still buy paper).