New 2000AD artwork for Sale on Comic Artfans

[Fatboydale]

I have watched and followed this artwork thread for a while ....

I have to side with Large48 your prices are unrealistic ....

I am in the top 3 collector's of 2000ad artwork in the uk , with around 3000 - 4000 pages of art , and i have seen it all .... i have to sell pages of artwork to help pay to keep the other pages and do so on a weekly basis  ....

Peter Doherty is still selling interior pages of painted artwork for £60 each ....
Greg Staples , early interior work can be found for £59.99 on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2000AD-1050-GREG-STAPLES-PAINTED-ORIGINAL-COLOUR-COMIC-ART-CHRIS-EVENS-/360593280599?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item53f508ce57
Jim Baikie only ever seen 1 page ever go as high as £380 and that was a cracking Skizz Alan Moore page ...
Carl Critchlow never seen a interior page go over £200

if you set a £99 start on most of these pages , some would not even get a bid ....

As for the Lovely McMahon , i asked about a price and you told me £8000 , now its £5000 and its been punted to every collector in the world , and it has yet to sell ??? If you pop it on ebay it would be lucky to hit 2K now......you can buy a vinatge pre 500 2000ad McMahon for less than £3500 ....i know where 2 are ....

I completely understand about getting a good price for artwork , but it is really how much someone is prepared to pay ....with most buyer's they are clued up , of what these pages were originally sold for !!!

I am the one who sold the Painted Clint Langley Nemesis pages and all were for less the £200 each , a few short years ago ..... if you had bought them i can only guess you would be looking for £2000 each now ...

There is a line between making a profit and profiteering ....

[Sideshow Bob]

Hi Dale,
I read your reply with interest, and a little surprise, but before we go further ...they are NOT my prices....As I have stated often, they are my brothers' pieces, and after several conversations with me, ( to try and reflect the present market place a little better ) he has reduced the prices on most of his artwork....

Several of your points are worthy of note...
1. The Greg Staples interior piece you give the link to ( The Chris Evans one selling for £60 ).....not to put too fine a point on it, is shit !....I've seen that page on eBay for ages, and I'm not surprised it hasn't sold as it's ( in my opinion ) a terrible piece, so to use that as an example of Gregs' fabulous artwork is a bit disengenious, as that is NOT typical of his amazing work.....
2. With regard to the McMahon piece, yes originally I did tell you my brother was looking for around £8,000 ( he was ) and yes,  after I talked with him, he has reduced his initial 'asking price' to £5,000..... I don't see anything wrong with him doing that, and he does accept that his initial price was too dear, so he has reduced it.......Isn't that what anyone would do ?.. People say it's too dear, so you reduce the price if you want to sell !...
3. As for your assertion that it has been 'punted to every collector in the world'.....What on earth do you mean by that !?.....That's really a little offensive and blatantly untrue !..... The McMahon piece has been on ComicArtFans site, and on here as well, and has been offered to Silveracre comics as well, ( by my brother ) but other than that, nowhere else.......And most certainly not to 'every collector in the world'.!!!...  There have been several enquiries about it on Comic Art Fans website,  but that's why it was put on the site in the first place...
4. Your bit about the Clint Langley piece and how they were £200 a few short years ago and how I (or  my brother ) would be looking for £2,000 now, is totally 'out of order'.....And your comment about making a profit and profiteering in respect to the above, is hugely offensive....
The pieces of artwork that are being sold ( by my brother ) were all bought at least 15 years ago and have never seen the light of day before now.....As far as I'm aware, most cost between £75 - £200 each away back then, which was a lot of money 'back then', although I do know the McMahon piece was even more than that...
5. The difference between profit and profiteering, and implying that is what I am doing, is a dreadful thing to say to any real comic art collector, and one I find hugely offensive... On that point, I discovered some Black and White artwork in a cupboard in my home that I had forgotten about, that had been bought about 12 - 15 years previously.... Incuded in this pile, was a Mr MacAbre piece by Bellardinelli, A Meltdown Man piece, a Future Shocks / Time Twister piece by Redondo and a Nemesis piece by Redondo......All of these pieces were offered to members of this forum, for what I can assure you were 'none profiteering' prices...
The Mr MacAbre piece was sold to Mark ( Hippynumber 1 ) for the sum of £90....despite reading on his ComicArtFans page about how 'desperate' he was to get the other pieces from that storyline.... Obviously I 'missed a trick there' !!
David Rees ( Ming ) was offered the chance to buy the Meltdown Man page for £100, but graciously declined,  in order to give Robert Cox the chance to buy it, as David knew he is a huge Meltdown Man collector and fan......That sold for £150.......Robert was delighted ( and so was I ) to get a chance to buy this for that price, as he said several dealers deliberately tried to 'screw him' because they knew of his love for that Artwork.....Looks like I missed 'another trick there '!....Looks like I'm a pretty poor profiteer so far !...
The Redondo Nemesis piece went on eBay to a member of this forum.......After being offered to Mark firstly  for £100...... It fetched a very nice £300+, which was a surprise to me, as I would have happily sold it to Mark for £100 but he declined.....Hardly the work of a 'profiteer', I think .......

But as you say, you are in the 'top 3 collectors in the UK'  and have  'seen it all'......So you might be right about the prices being too high, BUT,  thats' your opinion, and one that you're entitled to have, ... but as I've explained above.......The rest of your other comments have been hugely offensive and untrue !!....
Cheers.

[ming]

I can definitely vouch for Bob with regards to the Meltdown Man and other pieces mentioned; priced very low and with an definite concern for the art finding a good home rather than just maximising the sale price.

I think the main problem here is knowing how to price stuff; eBay is okay-ish as a guide but experience is probably a lot more useful (something Dale obviously has in spades).  From the point of view of someone new to art sales, with a collection of pieces picked up umpteen years ago and no real idea of how to price them, I can imagine it's very difficult to approach this.  Setting initially high prices for some pieces to test the market, then dropping to more realistic levels, seems decent enough.  Certainly some other pieces Bob mentioned were priced very low (too low!) so I don't think it's fair just to accuse him of profiteering.


Now, time for a nice cup of tea.

[hippynumber1]

I too can vouch for BoB on the Mr Macabre and Redondo Nemesis pages. He strikes me as a jolly decent and honest fellow. 

I do agree, however, that some of the pages are priced high but as he states quite clearly, they're his brother's pages and prices.  This is in no way a dig at you Dale (you know I love you man, I'll be giving you some more money soon, I promise)!

Selling art is as much of a nightmare as buying it! There really is no straightforward answer to 'what's this worth?'...

[malak brood]

ahhherrm.......bit awkward, and I don't want to appear overly callous...but where are those 2 McMahon pre 500 covers, I might be interested....... 

We all love 2000ad artwork and I know we all have our own favourites.  IMHO folk in the past haven't got their full asking prices, but somewhere close usually gets a deal done, its a judgement and you have to decide what its worth to you.  I'm never offended by an offer for artwork, If I don't like the offer I usually explain why and end up in a good chat with someone who enjoys the same or similar stuff.

But its fair to say that some artwork has gone for much more than I think many of us would have expected.......The recent Halo Jones piece on Ebay for example......others still look good value to me......Wakes sale of Brett's stuff for example, clearly some was underpriced cause it leapt off the shelves, others remain available. 

I think the dealer market has grown for 2000ad artwork and I for one am glad of that.  I don't have time to be in contact with loads of artists that I like or to try and engage them in lots of dialogue, i would love to, but I'm just too busy.  It doesn't mean I'm any less a fan. Folk dealing in artwork just means that I can find access to pieces I like.  I guess I wont get the satisfaction of knowing I have bought a piece 'on the cheap' but I can get to things I want.  Also prices have risen and stuff I bought early on looks like great value now.
I've bought well priced stuff from Dale in the past and I'm sure I will in the future.....(still here for that cheap McCarthy Dredd monster size piece Dale  )  If I fancied any of the stuff Bobs Brother has, I'd be posting him an offer....... Its all in the eye of the beholder and the emotions it drives I guess.

Oh, and you should all make sure you have your artwork either listed separately on your insurance policies, or have specialist cover.  We're all holding major pop culture history (whatever that means!)
I visited the Lichtenstein exhibition over the weekend and I genuinely felt that Carlos' take on the original Irv Novick classic was superior to the Lichtenstein.........You are a lucky, lucky man Ben.....
http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=810998

[Spikes]

ahhherrm.......bit awkward, and I don't want to appear overly callous...but where are those 2 McMahon pre 500 covers, I might be interested....... 

Eh? Whats all this? Me! Sell them to me Dale!!


Comic art collecting is a brilliant hobby, isnt it . The more you learn about it, the more you become aware of all the aspects that make up the whole.
But its fairly clear to see its the love for the art that is the over-riding factor on here.
Some very good points made on here, over the last few posts, so i dont really feel the need to add owt else.
And take a bow Bob, for the way you let those art pages find new homes on here. 

[Fatboydale]

ohh fight .....

Without bullet pointing ever point ..... i wasn't trying to be hugely offensive .... i'm just a little blunt , little education i'm afraid .... my apology for the bluntness  ( fuck me twice in week i said that ) 

I take it most of the artwork was either bought directly from the artist 15+ years ago or either the 2 main dealers back then Ian Senior and Pete Smith ...??? non of the above pages were ever sold anyway near £75 ( apart from the McMahon and even then McMahon interior pages were £40-£50) .... not when you could Vintage pages for £30-£40 at that time .... i was there buying the same ....

The reason i am guessing for the High Prices been asked Now ,is something to do with some artwork sold cheaply by your brother in a bulk deal , and then sold on ebay at a profit .... kinda know this for a fact ..

If you post artwork on CAF it clearly means your punting artwork to the world ..... i know of 3 people asking for details for the McMahon all major collectors , the only people who dream of dipping their pockets ...

I have known Rob Cox far longer than everyone on this forum and been helping him find Meltdown man artwork for 17+ years , so it does warm my heart you helping him on his quest , and helping other forum members is very nice as well ...... i never said you was a bad man , just the art prices are too high ...

Like everyone else i get shocked at what art makes on ebay.... just not that often ....

Good luck with your art sale .... 

Dave yes that was callous .... but i would have done the same 

Iain just drop a direct line to Pete through facebook and say i sent you .... he had a stack of art at the last thought bubble ....

[Sideshow Bob]

Thanks Dale,
Apology accepted...and moving on....

Most of my brothers' artwork was bought ( not from Artists, as he didn't know any at that time ) but from an Art / Comic Shop in Covent Garden, London......over a period of a couple of years in the very early 90's..... He was a "Double income and No Kids"  guy at that time,  so bought a great deal of artwork !!
As for the prices paid, I know they were in the £75 - £200 range,  because I bought 2 pieces of Artwork from the same shop myself...( Shop is now unfortunately closed )....At that time, as I remember there were 40 or 50 pieces of artwork for sale in the shop in a huge 'standing' folder..   
The two pieces I bought,  were fully painted in acrylic, and were from the 2000AD storyline Devlin Waugh : Swimming in Blood by Sean Phillips and I paid £300 for the two.....That included the original acetate overlays for both....
And being a gentleman, and not wishing to 'profit'... ,  from buying them at this 'cheap' price I have kept them for the last 20 years and still have absolutely no intention of selling them...Ever !!...
I can tell you though,  that my wife 'had an absolute fit' when I told her how much I had spent.... On my Credit Card I should add, as I didn't have enough cash to buy them outright...It took me almost a year to pay that off....

The reason for the 'high prices' being asked,  has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he sold several pieces in a 'bulk lot' then saw them being sold on eBay for a profit.....My brother was very happy with the price he got from the 'bulk lot' deal,  and fully expected the dealer he sold them to to make a profit....The reason for the 'high prices' remains what I said earlier on....Thats' what he thinks they are worth !.......

Now, anyone can agree or disagree with his valuation of 'what they are worth', but that's what he thinks and on the whole I tend to agree with him...
Cheers..

[opaque]

Oh, and you should all make sure you have your artwork either listed separately on your insurance policies, or have specialist cover.

Where would you get this specialist cover from?  (Companyname etc I mean) I'm guessing someone along the line somewhere has to define a value to everything at some point even for this. Especially as you can't replace it like you could a tv or valuable wine.

[Sideshow Bob]

Opaque,
Most Insurances Companies have a section ( in Your Buildings and Contents Insurance ) where you can specify cover for specific individual items.. ie valuable jewelery, watches, paintings, bikes ( pushbikes...ie racing bikes / all terrain etc ) ..that you can place a specific value on...
My Insurance Company has this 'type' of section that allows me to specify certain items...ie Two 'high end' guitars that I own.....
Stupidy though,  I don't have my artwork individually insured......Moving house in a few months though so I'll need to re-do it all anyway and will add them then.... ( Direct Line Household Insurance although most companies do this  ).
Cheers

[Skullmo]

FFS can people offer all this cheap art to me in the future!

[Sideshow Bob]

FFS can people offer all this cheap art to me in the future!

I'll keep you in mind next time I've got 'cheap art' for sale Skullmo !! 

[opaque]

Opaque,
Most Insurances Companies have a section ( in Your Buildings and Contents Insurance ) where you can specify cover for specific individual items.. ie valuable jewelery, watches, paintings, bikes ( pushbikes...ie racing bikes / all terrain etc ) ..that you can place a specific value on...

Oh yes so does mine and they are mentioned as a specific collection, but I mean surely the only value you would certainly get under this would be the amount you paid for it, as you would be able to do with your guitar for example. Someone needs to associate that £30 page of artwork to now be worth £800 for them to pay out on the higher amount. Unless they take Ebay valuations in which case I'm laughing

Putting my stuff on CAF is partially so I have a proper record of my collection 'just in case' as well as wanting to show it off

[malak brood]

Hi Opaque

Where would you get this specialist cover from?  (Companyname etc I mean) I'm guessing someone along the line somewhere has to define a value to everything at some point even for this. Especially as you can't replace it like you could a tv or valuable wine.

I have mine covered via a policy with Lloyds (I know it sounds fancy but the bank do insure stuff....) I have a spreadsheet which I update which shows each piece and the replacement value.  As you say, they can't be replaced but it would be helpful to have the cash to secure similar should the worst ever happen (sorry, my eyes are watering, ....choking up a bit at the thought... .) I just then make sure that the cover is adequate to the pieces I have.  CAF is then a great asset to show what the individual price was.  Hope this helps!

[opaque]

But where did you get the replacement value from? Best guess?
Or did you buy them all more recently?

Spreadsheet sounds a good idea, will have to do that.