PREVIOUSLY ON 2000ad ....

[jabish]

I know I've said this before but since the Dredd movie and 2000ad going digital day and date and what I perceive and hope is a new flow of readers both here in the UK and especially internationally (Eisner nomination! How brilliant!) I think its even more important that the comic be as accessible as possible. Yet as is 2000ad's nature we have returning series which are in the middle of long running and complex storylines which have been going on for years and yet there is no effort made to bring new readers up to speed on these.

Stickleback, Defoe, Zombo all spring to mind and that's just a few, even Dredd with all the changes that have happened due to Day of Chaos. There's loads. All these series are essentially multi-part/multi-year epics. What's a new reader to do? I know the argument would be to buy the trades to catch up but look, that will happen after the fact. The stories and art are good enough that people will want to properly read what went before but that's only after enjoying what is currently in the prog. And that's the problem. For a reader who has just plonked down there hard earned cash for a digital sub or even just pick it up off the shelf I think the prog can at times be impenetrable. And I worry that these new readers may not stick around if the comic is perceived as something that can only be enjoyed by long time readers. The long wait between each book of various series exacerbates this. I know that can't be helped but it's a fact. Ten Seconders, about to return to the prog is a case in point, so is damnation station which is on its way soon.

Criticsm should be constructive so I offer that a possible solution would be the long promised 2000ad Wiki, with synopses of what has gone before in each book of each series. Highlighting the returning ones. Imagine being able to click a link on this website or even on the digital prog which would send you to a proper 'Previously on....'. Something well written and informative to bring new readers up to speed so they know what the hell is going on! If I was a new reader I wouldn't have a clue what's happening in Defoe or Zombo. Speaking of Zombo Pete Wells showed how to do a recap on his blog when he recapped the previous sries before the new on started. That was something I sent to everyone who I knew had started reading since the dredd movie and they were extremely grateful. Its here, its brill: http://bit.ly/19xBSsp. Simon Spurrier did something similar on this forum when Lobster Random returned. It works, its helpful and its needed. And this would in no way cannibalise trade sales only help them. They read the recap, follow the series and see that with writing and art that good they need to see the real thing.

I think this is really important. 2000ad always has aliens in it but it shouldn't be alienating.

Cheers

Jamie B

[TordelBack]

While I in no way see complex long-running stories as a bad thing (I see it as an essential hook for long-term interest), and note that many readers often can't seem to recall what happened more than 2 issues ago anyway, it's a good point that summaries should be readily available.  Many are.  Often on the first page of Google results.  I know 2000AD's demographic is getting on a bit, but:

Defoe
Stickleback (admittedly a series behind)
Dredd and Day of Chaos
Ten Seconders

Zombo is a bit of an exception, other than Pete's recent rundown there isn't much to go on.

[jabish]

Glad you agree. I think the longform type of storytelling in 2000ad now is great but help for new (and forgetful) readers) is sorely needed. And a central place to go to for the info rather than having to do a google search and sift through is always preferable.

When a series returns I hit google myself for a quick refresher. Maybe a sign of age. But as you say that's only good for some series and its frustrating to not be able to catch up on damnation station, Age of the Wolf and so on. 

Hope the higher ups read and consider. 

[TordelBack]

Can't argue with that.  The recentish trend of using the Megazine to provide reprints of older stories and interviews in and around the return of long-runners to the Prog was a welcome development, and it seems that a similar approach to producing online documentation for each old thrill as it returns would be a good way of breaking up the problem into pertinent chunks, rather than the huge task of producing an overall Wiki or in-house equivalent.

It is notable that where a truly incredible central repository of info does exist (Barney), a surprisingly small number of people seem to refer to it.  Perhaps we really do need some form of well-signposted hub for everyone to access what is already there.

[Simon Beigh]

I'm a recent returning reader, and subscribed via my iPad to get three free months worth of Progs. I went back to the Prog that had the start of new storylines (Prog 1824, which left three Progs unread, but never mind) and started from there. I had no idea of any previous Stickleback or Dandridge story's and haven't read Day of Chaos. However, I don't think it spoilt my enjoyment much. Sometimes story arcs start right in the middle of something anyway, and I found that in both cases enough of a back story was replayed in the episode so I knew what was going on. And if I catch up with previous stories of these characters at some point in life, I will treat them as "Origins" stories, which are all the rage these days anyway!

With Defoe, those lovely people in the 2000AD shop did a half price deal on the TPBs a couple of weeks before the story hit the Prog. I bought these and read through them, so that worked quite well.

With Dredd post DoC, again, I'm treating that in the same way as Stickleback and Dandridge. I will catch up with DoC when it comes out as a TPB in a few weeks time and treat it like an Origins or a flashback. I've chatted to a number of people on the forum who joined the swelling ranks of Prog reader post-DoC and the general sentiment is that the stories aren't spoilt by not knowing the background.

Personally, I wouldn't read a flashback. I wouldn't want it to spoil my enjoyment if I go back and read those previous story lines in a TPB or as a freebie floppy with the Meg.

Wikipedia, as TordelBack showed is quite good, otherwise you could drop a note in the spoilers section of the forum asking for a quick synopsis and I'm sure someone would oblige. I do agree there is a gap for a centralised, structured synopsis. Perhaps a forum section of its own would be a good stop-gap?

[Colin YNWA]

This is a point that I often get a right cob on about, as while it certainly has to be a consideration I don't see it as as big a problem as others. I look to two things. Firstly When I started reading 2000ad for my longest run back as a kid I picked up issue 431. In that Prog (with thanks to Barney for the detail):

Ace Trucking - The Croakside Trip part 4 of 6
Rogue Trooper - Antigen of Horst part 10 of 11
Slaine - Time Killer part 19 of 22
Strontium Dog - Slavers of Drule part 6 of 10
Judge Dredd - Nosferatu part 2 of 4

Now fair to say I'd been reading 2000ad on and off since the start, but I'd not seen it for well over a year at this time. All of the stories were in the middle (or towards the end in fact) of a run, many had back story I wasn't up to date with (Rogue and Slaine in particular) and I was absolutely hooked. Not entirely sure what the heck was going on, but there was enough there to give me short-term understanding and the longer term stuff built up over time. I'm sure many of us could produce similar stories and examples. I was 13 and was perfectly able to accept I didn't have 100% of the story, but there was enough there to keep me entertained (and then some) and enough information to stop me feeling completely lost.

Has that much changed. Well yeah, there seems to be a lot more jumping on points these days and the new stories, while yes in the middle of longer 'sagas', for want of a better word, all have enough in them (well most do) to be entertaining reads in and of themselves. There's also a host of information out there on the internet, sure you shouldn't need to look stuff up, but you can if you feel you have to (Tordelback gives the detail here). There's trade collections so that you can choice to pick up many of the stories in complete form if even that isn't enough.

Secondly I look to soaps. I made this point when ranting about similar claims being made about Sinister Dexter being impenetrable over at ECBT 2000ad a while back, I'm very pleased to note that the latest run of that series seems exempt, by and large, from such claims and is the perfect example of a jumping on point... I digress where was I ... oh yes soaps.

Soaps deal with this all the time. They are generally well written enough that a new viewer can get all the information they need to understand the individual events in a specific episode, not all the back story, the events. These events are entertaining and gripping enough to literally millions that they desire to come back for more, that desire created by one 30 minute episode in a soap that's could have been running for literally over 50 years. They also keep the balance right, so that the long term viewer gets their bit of continuity porn without it interfering with the  newbies introduction.

Is a 2000ad story that much different? You may not know it all, but you can follow the events and its thrilling enough to make you want to come back for more. The writers at 2000ad I truly believe are as competent (see brilliant actually) at doing this as soap writers. I give examples in my longer (no really) Sinister Dexter piece if you want to look at this in detail... its written as badly as this so I don't advise that!

Oh oh and I third thing to think about the recent 3riller Ghostship Mathematica, well this serves more as an example of what I mean. This story was really three short stories, told in individual 5 page chunks, showing events at three very different separate points in a long saga. It was written in such a way that each part was self contained, while still building into a whole if you read it all in one go. Perfect example...

... sorry I'll stop ranting now and conclude by saying yes writers, Matt Smith and Tharg need to be aware of this, but its ever been so and its a well trodden path to avoiding continuing stories being a block to new readers.

[NorthVox]

I wouldn't mind it. I'm on an on and off reader (due to financial contraints, otherwise I'd be bursting at the seams from thrillpower overload), and I ended up entirely missing Day of Chaos, which was a bit jarring when I happened to glance over the summery page one day and thought the "50 Million" citizens thing was a typo...

[I, Cosh]

I tend to agree with Colin. The blurbs on the Input page give a useful summary when a story returns and the whole structure of the comic has changed from the old days to give 10/12 part stories with regular start points to try and combat this problem of people not knowing what's going on.

Sure, an up to date wiki type resource with a link in the Prog for those who want more info would be handy but hardly essential.

[TordelBack]

...I happened to glance over the summery page one day and thought the "50 Million" citizens thing was a typo...

Heh, I keep hoping it is a typo.  Or at least a long series of them.  Or DeMarco wakes up to find Joe in the shower or something.  I don't think the wider world has really copped on to what a momentous thing Wagner did here - killing off a character far more important to the comic than Johnny Alpha ever was. 

[Judge Brian]

When I was 7 my mother bought me my first comic book. Justice League of America #123. It was a crossover with the JSA & the writers & editors of DC comics on earth prime. I understood every word even though Robin was an adult in a weird yellow & grey costume.

As an adult I can't watch a television program unless I catch the first episode or catch up on DVD. If I come into an episode of Mad Men late & Don is at the office in shorts & not a suit & tie, it would drive me mad not knowing why he's in shorts if I didn't slip into kid mode.

I guess my answer to the op's question is to get 7 year olds reading 2000AD. They won't care if they miss chapters of back story. It will make them think the comic is more complex than it is & thus, more adult.

[Grant Goggans]

The difference between then and now is that when you were a kid, you had all the time in the world to read and reread and reread comics.  Of course I could tell you who all the ABC Warriors were when I was in high school.  I can't tell you the name of anybody in Defoe's Dirty Dozenne.

I've said it again and again and Tharg doesn't care to listen, but when something like The Ten-Seconders is coming back after a five-year absence, and a collected edition that I did not buy, then the thing to do, instead of scheduling a Future Shock in the week before, is schedule a recap episode.  WHO and WHAT.  Four pages.

Of course, a visually distinctive cast will help.  Hopefully, the characters this time out won't be Beardie, Beardie, Welsh Beardie, and Beardie With Mask.

[Simon Beigh]

I can't tell you the name of anybody in Defoe's Dirty Dozenne.

Ok. So there's [spoiler]the bloke that wears Babe Magnet on his back and has goggly eyes, the Irish Pirate, the vicar, the bloke that can fly, the child snatcher, the housewife[/spoiler]... Um.... Nope, take your point Mr Goggans I only read this a couple of weeks ago as well!

And I hope Tordelback's post isn't a spoiler for those of us who haven't read Day of Chaos yet! I quickly moved on when I thought it might be...

[Colin YNWA]

I've said it again and again and Tharg doesn't care to listen, but when something like The Ten-Seconders is coming back after a five-year absence, and a collected edition that I did not buy, then the thing to do, instead of scheduling a Future Shock in the week before, is schedule a recap episode.  WHO and WHAT.  Four pages.

But that only applies if the new story requires you to have read the old one to enjoy it. We've not read it so we don't know, but I reckon it'll be fairly self contained with nice bits added for thus that have.

[jabish]

Glad this has caused some debate. I stand by what I originally said. I think the stories in 2000ad today are long form epic stories that reward knowing what's gone before. These writers are telling big stories. Look at the new wave of Dredd writers. Every story they write seems to be setting up another story, they are all playing the long game. Even the one off by Rob Williams and Trevor Hairsine (which was very good BTW) recently was foreshadowing something to come and referencing a story from last year.

Grant Goggans point about having a recap of Ten Seconders rather thana future shock is an excellent one. I feel the blurbs on the input page are not substantial enough for a returning series after a years (or several years) absence.

Like I said. I hope someone is listening.

[Professor Bear]

As far as I know, you can stick .txt files in .cbr files, so a copy and paste from a wiki would solve the problem for digital peeps, which I imagine would represent the majority of new readers.  I think the little black bars with the names of strips appearing each issue on the intro page serve as recaps, though I imagine it's hard for them to cover everything in that amount of space, so unless a strip has sat in a drawer for a few years, a writer would ideally make allowances for huge gaps in the narrative flow of what is essentially his/her portfolio piece.