Looking to improve my drawing

[GrudgeJohnDeed]

thanks a lot guys, loads of great advice and some inspiring stuff. Letting yourself be crap is something that particularly strikes a chord, because it often looked better in your head when youre a novice like myself and can be very frustrating! but you shouldnt let that put you off, but rather embrace it and power through onto the next drawing.

that looks like a cool site flip, as SimeonB said if theres a good way to tackle that id love to hear more

Ive got a good recent example of the gulf between my drawing ability and my pixel art i thought id share



I decided to make something for my sister. I drew this ^ 



but after hours of picking away in my pixel art program, i turned it into this^

not amazing, but 1000x better to my eyes. still not sure about the shading on the body though. and maybe the leg.

I think pixel art is a bit of a crutch as someone else put it. I mean i love pixel art, i think its the bee's knees, but i definitely rely on it too much!

[flip-r mk2]

GrudgeJohnDeed, SimeonB I usually just use 'standard' and the length of time depends on my mood and how much spare time i've got. I think you really have to use trial and error to find out whats right for you.

filip

[Frank]

Judging by that sketch, the fundamentals of your freehand drawing are strong, Grudge. The reason your (very good) pixel art is more accomplished is because you've spent time honing your technique in that medium; do the same with other styles of art and that same fluency and polish will come.

[GrudgeJohnDeed]

youre right sauchie, its probably a bit daft of me to compare my freehand to my pixel art and complain my drawing is crap in comparison when i clearly spend more time pixelling than drawing. Thanks for the compliment though, hopefully its a (messy) foundation to build on!

Ill give that a go flip, I might start with some longer ones as if somethings going well i end up wanting to spend time on it!

maybe i'll post some efforts up if its not stuff that needs locking away in a sketchbook

[Fungus]

Yet another top forum thread :-)
I was also Googling my local Arts Centre for life-drawing classes today, must be 20 years since I last went along to those. Been getting back into drawing, loving the results,  and was looking forward to taking another class...

... except the class I knew now has 2 variants: "teenagers" and "kids" (7-11). Hmmmm...

Still, for those that can, I'd recommend it. Chances are there are exhibitions involved, and it's a real eye-opener to see everyone else's styles. Miniature scribblers; big and bold; colourful. All great. Highly recommended.

[SuperSurfer]

Blimey I started typing this hours ago but had to dash out. (False alarm, someone thought they'd been burged!)

Indeed, you can't beat drawing from 3D reference.

You could have a look to see if there are any life drawing meetups in your area. http://www.meetup.com

Couple of years I go I went on a speed drawing meet up. The model would hold a pose for 30 seconds, 1 minute, 2 minutes etc. Really beneficial in so many ways eg makes you think about how long you look at the subject matter as opposed to looking at the drawing paper. 

And if you want to be a comic artist – don't go to art school (actually that's not necessarily correct but some truth in it).

thats interesting, whys that? Im not sure i could handle the coursework at an art school anyway, im not one for essays and art history unfortunately

Well, depends on the course and tutors TBH.

Before studying for a degree I did an art and design foundation course which was more geared towards fine art. The emphasis was on drawing with bold, free and expressive strokes as opposed to the tight detailed stuff we were expected to do during art A-level. At my school, the only drawings considered good were those that looked super detailed and photo realistic. There is much more to drawing than that of course. (I must say though I am sometimes mildly niggled by some comic fans who always comment on the amount of detail in a drawing as if that is the barometer of how good it is. I actually like all styles of comic art.)

Comic art, at least in my day, was frowned upon at art college. I had a drawing on my portfolio of Johnny Alpha and one tutor asked me when will I stop drawing that kind of rubbish. Stupid comment also due to the fact that it was the only remotely comic type drawing I ever showed evidence of while at college. Mind you she thought Picasso was crap – way too tame for her. She was into Joseph Beuys.

Though I'm glad for the way we were taught, I just don't have the patience now to do a lot of the tight stuff. I think art college knocked that out of me. I recently found some of my sketchbooks which have some comic pages I drew when about 18-years-old. I keep on meaning to scan those in and upload onto this forum. I just don't think I could or would like to draw like that anymore and I put that down to art college. 

As mentioned before here, moronic electricians threw out all of my art stuff and comic drawings from when I was young which was at my mother's house. Blood still boils!.

[SKD]

 First off, I love your pixel art.

Secondly, I don't see anything wrong with your sketching technique in the 'cuddly dinosaur' example above. Nothing to feel embarrased about. It has form, a light source, proportion (all be it exaggerated) It is what it says on the tin, a cuddly dinosaur.

As others have said "Draw from life" Take a life drawing class if you feel you need to, the tutors feedback may be very helpful. If you don't feel confident enough to sit with others drawing, then the pause button on your DVD player could prove useful. Pause a film, sketch the figures in a set time.
Use a mirror to help with facial expressions, it can also be an aid if you want to draw hands from a different angle.
Looking at books on anatomy may also be of assistance with muscle structure and skeletal limitations. There are also plenty of books around with sections on perspective and composition.

I wouldn't copy other artists work, I suggest you find your own way to draw things. As a comic reader you will absorb how the professionals' 'do' things anyway, without resorting to mimicry.

If you can't draw from life, use referance photos/images when ever possible. I've just compleated a splash page for a strip, before I started it, I did three sheets of A4 sketches of crows, ostriches and storm clouds. Google images has saved me a lot of trips to the library.

If you do post your work on the forum here, then I'm sure the great and the good will offer you first-class creative criticism and helpful advice.     

And finally, as the old joke goes "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?"  "Practice, practice, practice"

I hope some of my ramblings* may be of some use to you... Enjoy your drawing.

Stew. 

  *Disclaimer: I am in no way a professional artist and pick up litter for a living.        

[Bubba Zebill]

For what it's worth a very simple exercise you can do anywhere with a biro or a pencil is to draw the following 3 shapes at variant angles. Cylinder, sphere and cube. Try manipulating them on the page, y'know, draw them in a standard position, then draw them again slightly rotated, combine them in another drawing.

By varying the angles and shading them you can enhance your sense of form and foreshortening.

If you want to recreate reality, do figure and painting classes.

If you want to create comics this book is worth it...I'm no fan of Marvel comics by any means. But the lessons in this book are pretty good, they might help you find your way. Good luck. And yes, draw all the time, keep a notebook in your pocket. Above all trust what you see in your head, imagine the forms...and take your time rendering them. You'll do it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Draw-Comics-Marvel-Way/dp/0907610668/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379424555&sr=8-1&keywords=how+to+draw+comics+the+marvel+way

[MenschMaschine]

Googling life drawing classes in the northwest as we speak, radiator! have you had much experience with them?

Life drawing is, imo, infinitely more helpful and productive than copying other artists drawings (something I myself haven't done since childhood).

Radiator is right, life drawing is the key. That will eliminate a possible stiffness of your characters. Editors pay serious attention to one abilities on representing the characters in a more naturalistic poses. There will be  exceptions of course, but good figurative drawing is always an advantage.
I'd add this: know your own body. Try to figure out how your muscles work together. In what kind of circunstances certain muscles are relaxed or in tension. Once I was told to go down to the gym for this but I'd suggest theatre classes, the more experimental the better. Things like Artaud's theatre of cruelty will demand an awful lot of your body but it's worthy. Then you'll sit down to draw something up and, with a solid knowledge of anatomy, your drawing skills will flow naturally.
Seems I'm going a bit far here but I know from experience that it really works.

http://www.brunostahl.deviantart.com/

[GrudgeJohnDeed]

wow loads of great advice, and some cool links thanks dudes!! I can definitely see how life drawing, learning to draw a real object from our stereoscopic view, can help so much with volume and depth. Plus when you start to draw real figures you definitely start to notice how almost every element of the skeleton changes position with the slightest of difference in pose, and i suppose if you master that you can produce some really special work. Hips/pelvis are an odd body part for me, i find it easy to forget that theres a lot of movement there, theyre constantly tilting and such.

I used to go to the gym a lot, so through that ive got a laymans knowledge of muscles, names, when they contract and relax. Id say that is pretty good advice actually, to go to the gym if you want to get fit and learn some anatomy in the process!!

Does anyone have any more info on their process when they life draw? Ive seen a few techniques, from creating light silhouettes first with charcoal to find the form and build upon, to drawing from negative space, is one technique better than another for learning form and depth etc?

[El Chivo]

When i was a kid i used to copy stuff & then try to recreate it using 'the power of my mind'

Cheers

Chi

[JayzusB.Christ]

The ONLY good book I've ever read about drawing from life (and I've read a lot) is Betty Edwards' Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain.  I taught art for a while, and using principles learned from this book, saw my students improve rapidly.
It's all about perception rather than technique:  Seeing objects in an unfamiliar way so that it bypasses the 'labelling' part of the brain with its pre-supposed concepts of what the subject 'should' look like.  Something like that, anyway

[Frank]

The ONLY good book I've ever read about drawing from life (and I've read a lot) is Betty Edwards' Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain.  I taught art for a while, and using principles learned from this book, saw my students improve rapidly.

It's all about perception rather than technique:  Seeing objects in an unfamiliar way so that it bypasses the 'labelling' part of the brain with its pre-supposed concepts of what the subject 'should' look like.  Something like that, anyway

One of the best lessons I had at school was when a teacher asked us to draw not the plant he's set before us but the spaces in-between the branches and leaves. It really changed the way I thought about form and composition.

[Dark Jimbo]

One of the best lessons I had at school was when a teacher asked us to draw not the plant he's set before us but the spaces in-between the branches and leaves. It really changed the way I thought about form and composition.

My college life drawing tutor told me the same thing, and it really expanded my mind. I'd just never thought to 'draw' the negative spaces before, but paying attention to those (over and above the actual solid forms) really does produce more accurate observational artwork.

He was full of such gems, as in the case of this bit of basic colour theory; I was painting something-or-other and he watched silently over my shoulder for a while then pointed to a cupboard and asked what colour it was. 'White,' I replied (for such it was). 'Oh?' quoth he, with raised eyebrow. There was a trap here somewhere, but I couldn't see it, until he pointed out of the window at a cloud and asked the same thing, and then again of a sheet of blank paper. The obvious answer was still 'white', but I already saw what he meant because all three things were totally different colours. One was a sort of blue-purple-grey-white, one a chalky-ochre-yellow-white, one a reddish-pinky-brown-white. The longer you looked the more you seemed to see. On the face of it all the same colour, and yet you'd need a completely different palette for each one. Really made me think about not only how I used colour from then on, but how I observed stuff in the first place.

[radiator]

The ONLY good book I've ever read about drawing from life (and I've read a lot) is Betty Edwards' Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain.  I taught art for a while, and using principles learned from this book, saw my students improve rapidly.
It's all about perception rather than technique:  Seeing objects in an unfamiliar way so that it bypasses the 'labelling' part of the brain with its pre-supposed concepts of what the subject 'should' look like.  Something like that, anyway

Very much so - one of the main challenges of figure drawing is drawing what you see, not what you think you can see. The brain tends to 'autocorrect' because anatomy looks fucking weird when foreshortening comes into play.