Why do you love Judge Dredd?

[JOE SOAP]

Remember, Kazan had already poisoned the population of MC1 with a mind altering toxin, resulting in millions of deaths, before the invasion had even begun!

Not to forget Captain Skank aka Nikita Kramm.

[Richmond Clements]

Bob Booth got in there before them.

34 years earlier.

And another 30 years later, they initiate the Day of Chaos...

[TordelBack]

Remember, Kazan had already poisoned the population of MC1 with a mind altering toxin, resulting in millions of deaths, before the invasion had even begun!

Not to forget Captain Skank aka Nikita Kramm.

Not denying that EM-1 was the aggressor, just noting that Dredd, a man trained from the tube to make quick and just decisions, went along with the ages-old narrative that allows people to commit unimaginable atrocities on an innocent civilian populations simply because 'they' are 'the enemy', and having done so to justify it with 'you started it'. 

I'd also argue that the decision he made was shown to be objectively wrong: by using TADs against half a billion people he thought to remove the Sovs' ability to fight the war: it didn't, and 350 million more of his citizens died as a direct result of his actions. It seems very unlikely that a similar number of the 400 million MC-1 survivors at the close of the war would have perished under Sov rule (well, at least until the Hissing Sisters showed up).   All he did was perpetuate a mutually-destructive cycle of vengeance, in defence of the fascistic dictatorial regime of Justice Department.

A more successful defence of Dredd's actions might be to argue that by responding with devastating force MC-1 wasn't so much ending the Apocalypse War as establishing the principle that any future aggression against it by anyone else, even it its weakened state, would be dealt with in the same way: the MAD balance beloved of Cold War game theorists.  Even then, Borisenko showed him how that thinking is flawed in reality.

[COMMANDO FORCES]

I don't know why Dredd and his white leaders of Justice Department didn't just submit to the nice rule of the friendly Sov Block. In fact as the might of the invading liberating forces arrived, he should have wagged his finger at them as a stern rebuke! who knows, the Sovs may have said sorry and turned tail back to their own City!

[Spikes]

Dredd wasnt alone in being willing to act in such a way.
Chief Judge Griffin himself, in the 5th episode, supported such actions - "You've launched TADS then... You did right...Better the Sovs perish with us, than rule us..."

[Greg M.]

I don't know why Dredd and his white leaders of Justice Department didn't just submit to the nice rule of the friendly Sov Block. In fact as the might of the invading liberating forces arrived, he should have wagged his finger at them as a stern rebuke! who knows, the Sovs may have said sorry and turned tail back to their own City!

No, no, clearly the correct and noble response was to burn millions of screaming women and children into ash. Isn't that always the best way forward? (Remember, they were from another country, so they don't count as people.)

As for MC-1's 'white leaders', I feel then-Council of Five member Quimby might object to this description. Though he'd probably be more confused as to why race was suddenly brought into the discussion.

[pictsy]

So does anyone else have any more personal accounts of why they love the Judge Dredd stories?  Obviously there are strong opinions about the Apocalypse War story and the consequences shown in the more recent Chaos Day story.  Are there any opinions on the other big stories?  What are peoples favourite stories?  Who are your favourite characters aside from Dredd?  Are there any Dredd stories you want to read but haven't had the opportunity to?

For that last one I can say I've been interested in reading the entirety of the Cursed Earth saga and the Judge Child saga.  I've read good chunks of both, but not every episode.  The first comic I got was The Complete Judge Dredd when they were reprinting the Judge Child and that really got me into Dredd and subsequently 2000 AD.

Another one I have wanted to read for years is America.  Not too long ago I purchased the entire volume 1 of the megazine so I now have the opportunity to read it, I just haven't got around to it yet.  Looking forward to when I do, however.

[Richard]

I like it for the reasons given by The Adventurer and Paul J Holden: sheer versatility of stories that can be told, and a history that develops in real time.

[Colin YNWA]

I've been pretty busy with one thing and another and so been saving this thread for a chance to sit and read it properly before trying to add anything. Had great fun just now catching up with its main theme (we've done the Apocalypse War one before so I'll park that one for now) and hope I can express why I love both him (Character) and it (strip) without retreading too much of what wiser people than I have already said, though retreading there will be.

For me the City gives the strip its legs and longevity, the man gives the strip its depth.

Its also a strip that's grown up with its audience, those of us that are lucky enough to be of that age, or there abouts, I can't speak for the rest of course. Its always had its wonderful satire, but in the beginning it was veiled in wonderful 'childish' farce. Its tongue planted in its cheek while as a kid I just loved the explosions and this crazy hard fella that was so very British in this take. He was embedded in the grim times that birthed him, but so where a lot of the cultural reference points I had, obviously. He made perfect sense in my world without me knowing it. While America and Star Wars provided my hopes and dreams with a shiny light.

As I grew so did the strip, or rather the veil of satire was pulled back a little and it became more forthright and the satire and led grew darker and more obviously mature. It was no longer 'hidden' behind the trappings of a kids comic, though those trappings still existed and become even more knowing, now winking at its audience. The explosions and robots and aliens and dinosaurs and other cool stuff was all still there, but there as so much more.

Okay so sure that meant that like me it went through its slightly awkward teen phase, but even then as it made its mis-steps, as with teen life there's some all mighty glories in there.

What of course has held it all together is John Wagner, at whatever point, realising he really was telling the story of a life. A single life, all be it in the most amazing, versatile setting. So its become the most fantastic, slow burning, dark, violent soap opera of them all. The wonder of the strip is the setting which means that while Wagner can weave his grand opera other writers can add their own unfettered take on things. Sure some more successfully than others, but when they make it work its grand scope allows them to create some bloody amazing comics. In short Mega City One is the single greatest setting for a comic series ever. In the world. EVER. (I looked that up in a big book, it was leather bound and had gold embossing and stuff so you can take that one to the bank!)

As for the character? My favourite telly character is Tony Soprano and Dredd is just the same. Well now he is. When I was younger to me he as just a kick ass fella with a sharp line. That as cool. As I got a bit older he was the villain pure and simple. I loved to hate him and the city as the star and he its dark shadow. The very devil. Now he's Tony. Still a vile, terrible man, but one made human and one we are made to understand, empathise with, sympathise with, even as we question him and watch him burst into fits of terrible violence. He's a child of his environment and time, we can't judge his decisions by our standards as to him they don't exist. So he is utterly fascinating a monster, capable of things we can barely imagine (luckily we have people bold enough to show us) and yet utterly real, human and likable to me. If one of the great things fiction can give us is insight into others, Dredd and Tony are clearly great characters, the best as they give us insight into monsters (sorry as ever Tordelback is right), into things we'd otherwise have no way of understanding.

I'm wittering, that's nowhere near as coherent as I hoped it'd be (and I've not even checked for my normal mistakes yet!) but there's so much to say about both the man and the strip that one message, hurriedly written fifteen minutes before much needed sleep aren't going to get there (hey and Tony in a different guise just came on the telly, who'd have thunk!). But then, there you are, as this wonderful tread shows, the reason we love him is there is so much to say. So many takes. So much depth and variance in the character. He's living an astonishing life and we're lucky enough to be hanging onto the coat tails of the single greatest, coherent fictional telling of a life I'm aware of.

Ask me in 20 years and maybe I'll be admiring his insight into retirement too no doubt!

I need to sleep...

[shaolin_monkey]

I loved America, and the whole Democracy business - both the suppression of the movement, and then the decision to allow the Citizens the opportunity to vote for an 'elected representative' over the rule of Law.

Part of the reason I loved those was that I was able to show my father (who read the comics, but always turned his nose up at them a bit) conclusively that there WERE serious themes underpinning the strip, and that it wasn't just about robots, dinosaurs, and big explosions. It actually explored themes of government, and linked it to the current US administration. It was a sad fact that more MC1 citizens turned out to vote than did at the US elections, happening around the time the story went to print.

In fact, Dredd is a subject he and I return to occasionally. When the whole 'is Dredd gay' bollocks hit the Guardian, we were both in agreement that the columnists were focussing on something innocuous compared to the fact he was a genocidal jackbooted thug.

So yeah, that's another reason I like Dredd - common ground with my old man!

[Frank]

My favourite telly character is Tony Soprano and Dredd is just the same.

I compared him to Scarlett O'Hara earlier in the week, but yours is more butch. Sorry, Pictsy; this is just the way threads go round here.

[pictsy]

Sorry, Pictsy; this is just the way threads go round here.

No need for apologies.  I've been on forums before   At least I have not seen a decent into flame wars here so far.

I have thought of another Dredd story I haven't read all the way through and I'm looking forward to.  Origins.  When I started collecting again, Origins was well underway.  I don't think I actually read it because I missed the beginning.  I am now approaching the story in my big 2000 AD read and I am quite excited about it.  I think it was missing the beginning of Origins that nagged away at me until I had to buy up back issues to fill that gap and get caught up. 

I think another great thing about Dredd and 2000 AD in general is the wealth of artistic talent.  The different visions each artist brings to the strip and probably most importantly, MC1.  2000 AD really helped to solidify my desire to be an artist.

[TordelBack]

So does anyone else have any more personal accounts of why they love the Judge Dredd stories?  Obviously there are strong opinions about the Apocalypse War story and the consequences shown in the more recent Chaos Day story.

Yes, apologies for dragging things off course Pictsy - I just find the Apocalypse War a particularly interesting insight into Dredd as anti-hero and how Wagner views him and his actions, and why we can both cheer him as he saves his City against all the odds, and then feel slightly sick about having done so.

Swerving back towards topicsville...

Tour of Duty and the parallel Mayor Ambrose storyline was probably my favourite Dredd of recent years.  After decades of everyone proclaiming that the City was the main character and Dredd wasn't really the same when taken out of it for any length of time, here was a Dredd in abject exile for month after month, while his enemies schemed away back home, and it was wholly convincing and gripping.  This was a Dredd living with the consequences of the most just of all his actions, and making a go of it even as his whole legacy was dismantled around him.

[Colin YNWA]

Tour of Duty and the parallel Mayor Ambrose storyline was probably my favourite Dredd of recent years.  After decades of everyone proclaiming that the City was the main character and Dredd wasn't really the same when taken out of it for any length of time, here was a Dredd in abject exile for month after month, while his enemies schemed away back home, and it was wholly convincing and gripping. 

Does that hold though as while people talk specifically about MC1 it really the boarder world he inhabits that support him as a character. The Cursed Earth is as least as rich a story yard as MC1 and while Dredd was situated there much of the tension of the larger story was still in fact unfolding in the city.

Also its not as if taking Dredd from the city for months at a time is in any way a new thing!

All that said with a re-read on its was I susepct that Tour of Duty is up there as my favourite Dredd epic... well up there with Cursed Earth and The Pit.

[TordelBack]

...the boarder world he inhabits that support him as a character. The Cursed Earth is as least as rich a story yard as MC1 and while Dredd was situated there much of the tension of the larger story was still in fact unfolding in the city.

Also its not as if taking Dredd from the city for months at a time is in any way a new thing!

All true, of course, although I suspect this by far Dredd's longest time away by page count if nothing else.

The key difference for me is that the whole team made the conceit of permanent exile plausible by making it work.  The fact that the one-offs and two-parters by various writers and artists that peppered the run were enjoyable and consistent, and followed a similar scheduling pattern to the usual City-based weekly comic, just made it feel like the strip had actually moved on.  Similarly there was no McGuffin for Dredd to chase or drag across the alien landscape (Owen Krysler, 2tFRU-T vaccine, Fargo) or single tangible obstacle to overcome (the Mutant, rogue Mechanismo, Dark Judges) in order for him to return: even the man who instituted the Townships not only held his respect, but was out of the picture for much of it, and his only real enemy was a petty bureaucrat. The only real reason for his return turned out to be other judges taking a dislike to Sinfield - just a dislike, mind: his illegal actions only came out after the wheels of his removal had been put in motion by Niles.

This allowed us to see Dredd struggling with himself, his role, and with the day-to-day, as much as with some epic adversity.  Particularly exciting was seeing Dredd brought low because he did the right thing.

The closest parallel storywise is The Pit, which is rightly a favourite of many, but with the focus in ToD far more closely on Dredd than it was there.