Original Cast Star Trek Films - which is your favourite?

[I, Cosh]

But yes, the original TV series is all you probably need. But personally I prefer the better novels to any of the visual Trek. Any Trek that doesn't feature Kirk, Spock and/or McCoy is not worth pissing on.

See, this is kind of interesting. I'm not particularly fussed either way about Star Trek. I've probably seen most of the original series but never set out to systematically do so. To my mind, the show itself is fun enough but nothing special. The alchemical mixture of those particular characters and actors, however, is something that almost transmutes lead into gold. The fact that it's a sci-fi show is irrelevant, this would work just as well set in a police precinct, a cattle range or a high flying ad agency.

So, yeah. Classic Trek has the best characters, TNG the best stories and I've haven't seen more than a couple of episodes of the others.

Pretty disappointed to see Tips left Dr Pulaski out of his list. He also failed to distinguish between the Daxes, so I'll help him out: Ezri>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jadzia.

[TordelBack]

He also failed to distinguish between the Daxes, so I'll help him out: Ezri>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jadzia.

True dat.

Also, Nurses/Doctor's Assistants:

Chapel >>>>>>>>>>> Selar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tom Paris

Did Bashir or Phlox ever have regular assistants, I forget.

[Recrewt]

I'm pretty biased about this cos the original Star Trek is one of the earliest TV shows I can remember watching as a kid (repeats, I'm not that old).  Those early shows are great.  Back then Roddenberry wanted to use the setting to discuss issues from the 60s hence the prominent placement of an African-American woman and an interracial kiss.  Thing is, nowadays you can look at this and not really notice it but they were really pushing the envolope back then.  It also contained some great sci-fi ideas - 'the devil in the dark' where the crew go to help some miners and find a creature that is made up of partially molten stone - that really blew my young mind!

What I find annoying is when Trekkies nowadays expect it to be a calm and sedate setup where nothing really happens.  That's not the Trek I remember - Kirk would romance the blue/green/gold woman and then have to engage in hand-to-hand combat.  But beneath all that it was fun.

TNG was not a bad series but personally I think it went on too long, ran out of ideas and just became boring.  I enjoyed DS9 with all the politics and such bubbling under the surface.  Since then though the other series have not been up to much for me - a lot of the fun has gone and as mentioned earlier, a story based around a pineapple cake is just not good enough.

However, this is all making me want to buy TOS and the movies on Blu-Ray!

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

What I find annoying is when Trekkies nowadays expect it to be a calm and sedate setup where nothing really happens.

Who are these Trekkies? Are they made of straw mayhaps? If I were to guess what annoys "trekkies nowadays" is that there's no real substance beneath the 'splosions and lensflare

[Recrewt]

Who are these Trekkies? Are they made of straw mayhaps?

You've lost me there.

I didn't hate the recent movies as much as some - the first was better than the second but ignoring all the lens flare there were some funny parts in the movies that at least made me laugh.  Some of the criticisms of these movies from the Trekkies were odd - 'Kirk would never have gone along with the missile idea in the first place' whereas in TOS that sort of thing happened quite often and only after spock/bones persuaded him did he change his mind.

[pictsy]

I'm pretty biased about this cos the original Star Trek is one of the earliest TV shows I can remember watching as a kid (repeats, I'm not that old).  Those early shows are great.  Back then Roddenberry wanted to use the setting to discuss issues from the 60s hence the prominent placement of an African-American woman and an interracial kiss.  Thing is, nowadays you can look at this and not really notice it but they were really pushing the envolope back then.  It also contained some great sci-fi ideas - 'the devil in the dark' where the crew go to help some miners and find a creature that is made up of partially molten stone - that really blew my young mind!

TNG was not a bad series but personally I think it went on too long, ran out of ideas and just became boring.  I enjoyed DS9 with all the politics and such bubbling under the surface.  Since then though the other series have not been up to much for me - a lot of the fun has gone and as mentioned earlier, a story based around a pineapple cake is just not good enough.

I have just started watching TOS (I'm on episode 6 of the first series).  I am aware that it was ahead of the curve with social issues at the time but so far (and remember, I've only seen 5 episodes so far) it still strikes me as chauvinistic.  It's not overtly so, but you can tell that it's a product of it's time still, in that regards.

I personally prefer the later TNG to the earlier TNG.  DS9, on the other hand, felt like it ended too soon.  The last series just seemed rushed to get everything tied up.  I really liked Ezri as well and it would have been nice to see the character have a chance to be fleshed out more.  Jadzia was good until she became a bloody Klingon. 

I also think that DS9 Worf was annoying compared to TNG Worf.  "Blarg!  Klingon honour!  Pain stick up my arse!  Traditional Klingon family values!  Where's my copy of the Jaj QIn?!?"

[Tiplodocus]

Pulaski was a great Doctor but I left her off because she was only in it for a season or so.

Phlox from Enterprise is a great character; he does the Doctor role well and also is fantastic in the "squirky alien" schtick (something done so badly with Neelix in Voyager).

No argument on the Dax front.

[Professor Bear]

I also think that DS9 Worf was annoying compared to TNG Worf.  "Blarg!  Klingon honour!  Pain stick up my arse!  Traditional Klingon family values!  Where's my copy of the Jaj QIn?!?"

The pain stick stuff was TNG, but I suspect you may have missed the point of DS9 Worf somewhat - in TNG he was a white middle-class person's idea of a noble samurai type, while DS9 deliberately focused on the racist and misogynist elements of such a character and stopped making excuses for him just because his genetic heritage was different from everyone else's.  Much of Trek is reverential of the Klingons one way or another, but DS9 set out to show that such a martial society is inherently flawed, doomed to die and not really worthy of the respect that TNG often suggested it deserved.

[TordelBack]

Much of Trek is reverential of the Klingons one way or another, but DS9 set out to show that such a martial society is inherently flawed, doomed to die and not really worthy of the respect that TNG often suggested it deserved.

There are exceptions within TNG too: I recently re-watched the 3rd Season episode where Worf refuses to have his blood used to save a dying Romulan, whose death may lead to war yadda yadda, and it's pretty powerful stuff, particularly his crewmates' angry incredulity.  Quite how he continues to progress through the ranks afterwards is a bit of a mystery, if he can't be trusted to uphold the ethos of Starfleet without being explicitly ordered to do so,

[pictsy]

The pain stick stuff was TNG, but I suspect you may have missed the point of DS9 Worf somewhat

Pain sticks also featured in DS9, but I suspect you may have missed the point of my joke somewhat.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

I always took it that Worf was nothing like yer typical Klingon. There's that episode where Riker goes to do some work experience on a Klingon bucket and he is surprised to hear Klingons actually laughing and joking. I got the impression that TNG Klingons were always critical of Worf because of his reductive view of Klingon culture, that the majority of Klingons viewed Worf claiming to be a Klingon in much the same way as some Irish view Americans who claim to be Irish. Although to be fair, with Irish and Americans it's a two way street, they did try to claim Barry O'Bama as one of their own. Maybe a better comparison would be the Irish and the Northern Irish Fenians? I'm rambling way off point here.

I just never really viewed Star Trek as stories in a real consistent universe, but more of a framework for allegories and metaphors, as a mirror of our own society and history. The Klingons were (admittedly romanticized) versions of old warrior cultures, a mix of Spartans, Mongols and Samurai.

DS9 moved away from this model, it aimed to tell stories in a more realistic and fully formed universe. As the Prof pointed out, it acknowledged that the warrior cultures the Klingons emulated were far from perfect. Same goes for the main cast, they were all flawed, there's a wonderfully self aware line from Q where he states "Picard and his cronies would have sorted this technobabble out hours ago!". DS9 brought some healthy cynicism to Star Trek and I think it did so successfully and I do enjoy it, just not as much as the romanticized utopia of TOS and TNG. I've always admired Rodenberry's optimistic philosophy that not only will there be a tomorrow, it will be a better tomorrow.

Voyager can fuckin do wan. Whereas I'd describe TOS, TNG and DS9 as "Very good overall, but with a fair few crap episodes," Voyager is "Crap overall with a couple of good episodes, mostly the one when Q shows up". Apparently Ronald D. Moore's original vision had Voyager limping through the delta quadrant being held together with spit and hope, but that was only realized in the 'Year of Hell', which was the series' finest moment. The main problem for me was the crew. Janeway was a great captain, and her exchanges with Seven were always good value, but Harry Kim is the second dullest Star Trek character ever, behind pineapple guy from Enterprise, but ahead of Chakotay, at least Chakotay had funky face tats. Neelix was just an obnoxious prat and I think Torres was supposed to be fiesty, but she just struck me as the biggest whinger ever to serve on a starship. Almost everything about Tom Paris rubs me the wrong way.

TL;DR: I really like Star Trek so I do.

[pictsy]

The dark tones, cynicism, flawed characters and better/more consistently developed universe are probably DS9's big draws for me.  Some of the 'O'Brien must suffer' episodes are among my favourite Trek episodes - alongside the fantastic 'In The Pale Moonlight'.  It being set in a fixed location made it more suited for longer story arcs - including character relationships, one of my favourites of which are O'Brien's and Bashir's friendship.  Those two were so cute together.

The introduction of the Klingons as a main race in series 4 was a good move, providing some more depth.  I don't think that TNG really romanticised or idealised the Klingons - it never really put much time into delving into their culture.  The best I'd describe it would be superficial.  DS9 had the opportunity to delve deeper into Klingon culture - as it had done so with the Bajorans and Cardassians - mainly through main characters.  I liked Worf in TNG because he was a fish out of water.  He was shunned by other Klingons and never was entirely comfortable around humans.  Despite being brought up by humans he demonstrated some odd miscomprehensions of human culture.  In DS9 he wasn't really a misfit.  DS9 had a really nice and diverse selection of characterisations that Worf fit in like a glove.  All was left for Worf was the overbearing Klingon stuff, but he never really developed that fun side that makes Klingons endearing.  At least in TNG he had amusing moments, but I found the character mostly humourless in DS9 (he had his moments, but they were few and far between).

[Jo-L]

The worst thing you can say about TMP is that it's boring, and they have dated costumes.  It's a decent episode, if not being a particularly worthy story for a film.

II is brilliant.

III is fun, and a good sequel to II

IV is a bit too peacenic for my tastes, but is good for it's time especially.

V is really bad.  Not as bad as the internet says it is, but pretty bad.

VI is Great.  It has a different vibe than traditional Star Trek to me, but that's fine, because it was trying to do something new.

VII (Generations) - Kirk resolution aside, I really like this movie.  Seeing Picard and Kirk together was quite enough for me to enjoy it I suppose.