Nothing to see here

[Bongo_clive]

I'm reading through the entire back catalogue of 2000AD, all the way from #1. I'm come right out and say it; I consider Gerry Finley-Day as one of the worst writers I've come across so far.

He is outstanding at ideas and concepts, but the script execution is awful, stories are dull, 'plot twists' are so unsurprising it's not funny and the painful fact he has to 're-introduce' everything and everyone at the start of every script is driving me mental.

Blackhawk completely lost the plot, changing from some boring space gladiator thing, into some weird psychedelic, purgatory based thing, for no apparent reason. Started skipping that one quite early.

Invasion was just plain stupid. He's a lorry driver, yet the entire British military is at his beck and call at most points. Oh, and he blows up armoured cars with his double barreled shotgun 

Fiends on the Eastern Front became extremely repetitive. It could have been awesome, but it was just dull.

The only strip I look back on with any fondness is the V.C.s

And then there's Rogue Trooper. One of the finest Sci-Fi creations in existence. The imagination involved is unparalleled, but the themes are never really explored, the characterisation is weak and every bloody prog was a long description of his blood bio chips. After nearly 150 progs, WE GET IT! I've just finished Fort Neuropa, and i have to say it was terrible. Nostalgia being what it is, I always had fond memories of these early stories, but my 'eck, they are bad.

So I post here, waiting for someone to enlighten me. Am I missing something? Is he just too subtle for my tastes? Should I be more forgiving? It's difficult, as these same progs contain some absolutely classic Judge Dredd scripts, stuff that still holds up today.

[Jim_Campbell]

Blackhawk was written by Alan Grant for the period you describe hating.

Alan also comprehensively re-wrote Harry Twenty, for my money one of the better strips with GFD's name on it, so it's obviously not that cut-and-dried.

FWIW, though, I personally don't welcome threads quite as unremittingly negative as this: they seldom turn out well.

Cheers

Jim

[Bongo_clive]

You're right, it is negative, but I'm unsure if I'm missing something.

GFD had some awesome concepts, and I can only assume that's why his stories are getting awards from the likes of 2000AD Review website as some of the best stories ever.

In my current eyes, they're just not.

But then, I thought Ice Hockey was a ludicrous sport until someone explained it to me. Now at least I can appreciate it a bit more.

So perhaps I'm missing something?

[hippynumber1]

I agree with Jim. If you haven't got anything nice to say... Or at least find a positive way of phrasing the question. A thread heading 'Worst Script Droid' is never going to go down well'.

[Frank]

The stories you've just read as complete tales in a few days, and as an adult, were intended to be read one week apart by children who would probably only read a few (non-consecutive) issues before moving on to another interest. The appeal of strips like Rogue Trooper and Fiends was their strong central conceit, and the way they were consumed meant those premises had to be explained every week to avoid confusing young readers who would (rightly and understandably) be baffled by the apparent fairy tale nature of someone chatting happily to the furniture:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afzmwAKUppU

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

I understand that a lot of the stories you refer to were written without knowing when they would end. Hence, they HAD to repeat themeselves. As a matter of editorial policy, the reached a mid-point and trod water until the writer was told to end it. They couldn't create or conclude threads because they didn't know how much time they had.

Also: you are looking at children's tales with adult eyes. My 8 year old loves every one of the strips you mention.

[TordelBack]

EDIT: Ach, as I struggled with children's breakfasts, brighter forumites gazumped me.  But I  can't waste a good rant...

'Worst writer' assumes some absolute standard you're comparing him to. 

Given the sheer amount of joy that GFD's work gave me and many others as kid, it's pretty obvious that he was extremely successful as a writer of children's SF adventure comics. This meant weekly entertainment for 100,000+ 5-12 year old boys, the constraints on which are some of the things you mention as weaknesses, e.g. recapping, and thus he's by an objective measure very good at the writing business.  That his work may not tickle your adult fancy served up in large chunks 30 years later says nothing about the quality of his writing.

I'm not sure why the re-writing thing comes up so often as a mark against him, comics are a generally collaborative process, and by all accounts 2000AD was a hotbed of editorial re-writes.  What matters is that he co-created and drove some incredibly successful, entertaining stories.

As to: 

Invasion was just plain stupid. He's a lorry driver, yet the entire British military is at his beck and call at most points.

I wouldn't read a newspaper if I were you.  Or google 'collusion'.

[Jim_Campbell]

I've just finished Fort Neuropa, and i have to say it was terrible.

Although... I do have to concede Disco Rogue was fucking embarrassing even when I was a lad.</devil's advocate>

Edit to add:

Exhibit A...



Cheers

Jim

[TordelBack]

Although... I do have to concede Disco Rogue was fucking embarrassing even when I was a lad.</devil's advocate>

Bloody goths.

[Jim_Campbell]

Bloody goths.

Hah. I was thirteen when that issue came out — my goth days were still a looooong way off.

I do recall actually not reading that issue as often as the others, simply because I was embarrassed by the cover, though.

Cheers

Jim

[Bongo_clive]

You are of course right, it was meant for youth/teenage consumption, but I don't see JD being dumbed down.

Let me ask it in a more nuanced, less sensational manner.

Judge Dredd, from the start, is a fascinating character in a fascinating world. Before Alan Moore's Watchmen came along, Dredd was asking us to reevaluate what a 'hero' character meant to us. He fought to uphold justice, protect the weak and defend his city, yet he could callously incarcerate the old, the infirm or the disadvantaged, and very early in his 2000AD career he has wiped East Meg 1 from the map. He has the blood of millions of children on his hands. Our reaction to this war criminal/hero is consistently fascinating.

Rogue Trooper on the other hand, is a being designed for war, his 'quest' is for revenge, played out across a war torn world, an environemnt rich in all the possible scenarios you could imagine. And every character is completely one dimensional. Rogue should be mindlessly driven to achieve his goal, and yet will often take the moral, ethical path when he comes across dilemmas. Yet this is never explained, nor explored. All Norts are basically Waffen SS mindless killers. Southers are just 'Good Ol' Boys', and wouldn't dream of war crimes. GFD has done a bad job. Doesn't mean I can't appreciate the worlds he created.

But I bring it up, as I like to reevaluate items of media that nostalgia may have built up to 'Classic' status (see also computer games and books).

Rogue is a strip that's been screaming for a re-boot for years. Any news on what IDW are going to do with it?

[Bongo_clive]

As to: 

Invasion was just plain stupid. He's a lorry driver, yet the entire British military is at his beck and call at most points.

I wouldn't read a newspaper if I were you.  Or google 'collusion'.

I believe collusion is mostly providing information, tip offs and other forms of underhanded tactics, not leading the SAS against an armoured column with a shotgun.

[TordelBack]

Southers are just 'Good Ol' Boys', and wouldn't dream of war crimes

I'm not arguing this thing is War and Peace, and obviously the Southers are the Good Guys in the grand tradition of boys' WWII comics, and the Norts are indeed space-nazis, but there is a lot more ambiguity than you imply. The Traitor General was a Souther.  Star Marshal Lamal and Colonel Kovert were Southers.  Major Magnum and Venus Bluegenes were Southers.  Gunnar was a Souther.  Bland of Bland & Brass was a Souther.  Millicom and its whole deeply dubious GI programme was Souther.  They aren't exactly a blameless undifferentiated bunch of white hats.

[TordelBack]

As to: 

Invasion was just plain stupid. He's a lorry driver, yet the entire British military is at his beck and call at most points.

I wouldn't read a newspaper if I were you.  Or google 'collusion'.

I believe collusion is mostly providing information, tip offs and other forms of underhanded tactics, not leading the SAS against an armoured column with a shotgun.

You don't believe 'legitimate' militaries provide material support to grass-roots terrorist groups? Last time I looked it's pretty much how these things are done.

Again, Invasion is silly boys adventure stuff (look no further than the cutaway diagram of the underground base), and it definitely tailed off badly from a strong start, but I don't think the idea of a government-in-exile actively supporting local resistance efforts is inherently ridiculous. 

[Jim_Campbell]

Judge Dredd, from the start, is a fascinating character in a fascinating world.

I think you're badly over-stating the case here, in support of your rhetorical purpose, but it simply isn't true. The first year of Dredd is basically a case of multiple writers continually throwing stuff at a metaphorical wall to see what sticks.

My introduction to the very early years of the strip was via the monthly 'Complete Judge Dredd' title and it's striking how shaky many of those stories were. Elements are thrown in and discarded — it's clear in the early issues that Judges are a super-elite that operates at a level above the regular police force, for example. Dredd himself veers between tough-but-fair and comically-inflexible-hard-bastard.

In fact, it's only at the end of Dredd's stint on Luna-1 (an odd diversion in itself, with a be-caped Dredd on his flying bike) that Dredd becomes truly recognisable as his modern incarnation. His uniform becomes bulkier, loses a lot of the curves, the visor gains those trademark SS lightning flashes and Wagner seems to settle on a tone for the character himself ("Don't do it, citizen," he yells at a would-be leaper, "littering the streets is an offence!").

Even then, Dredd is dragged off on the Cursed Earth storyline in which Mills is happy to play Dredd as far more heroic than Wagner, so it's not really until The Day The Law Died that Wagner really gets to steer the character and the strip, which takes us almost to the end of the its second year.

Cheers

Jim