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Author Topic: RESULTS - The Rebellion Years Top 10 Series - Tournament  (Read 597 times)

Colin YNWA

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Re: RESULTS - The Rebellion Years Top 10 Series - Tournament
« Reply #30 on: 05 July, 2020, 10:03:43 AM »
Yeah its fascinating to see how close 'Brink' and 'Nikolai Dante' are. I guess the fact that Dante finished almost exactly 8 years ago now could be a factor in that - I shudder just saying that can it really be 8 years since Dante finished!?!?. Brink is fresher in folks minds and certainly from the annual polls the current darling of at least this section of fandom(and me I should say!)

I do however think its much more than that. While Dante is a supreme, roaming epic that entirely deires top spot, Brink is something entirely different, but just (almost, almost) as good. I've reflected on the fact that I've recently seen Dabnett's work describe as 'Ultra, ultra, ultra competent' (I might misquote slightly) in a discussion on why he won the Ultimate None Wagner Tourney, but I think looking at this we see that that view is pretty reductionary.

While its entirely true he might not have the 'obvious 'fireworks' of Pat Mills and the obvious creative brillance of say John Smith or Pete Milligan, I think that is just done to the pure craft of the man. If you look at the three strips he has in just the top 11 of this vote (yep 3 strips in the top 11 in the last 20 years, that's more than any level of competance to me)

Brink
Kingdom
Sinister Dexter

and add to that the fact that Lawless and Insurrection are going to ... well do very well... in the Meg vote, you begin to see quite why he is so talented. They are very different strips, they offer very different things, yet each is created with breathtaking guile and craft.

Its Brink though that for me shows the intelligence of the man most completely (well that and Lawless but I'll stick with the matter at hand). It entirely lacks, or seems to, the ideas a minute, the explosive creativity of John Smith or Pete Milligan, instead creating a solid, structured world we appear to understand. Its founded in police procedural. But its so much more. The way each episode focuses on a conversation, or apparently small interaction, or moment of character reflection builds that close, claustrophobic atmosphere. In doing that keeps the larger scale cult mystery at arms length, heightening its intrigue and omnious presense. Interestingly I find it similar in that respect to John Smith's highest placed work here the sublime 'Cradlegrave'.

That's more than just competance, thats masterary of your craft. The different storytelling style each episode of 'Lawless' demonstrates this even more.

The different methods he uses to create different story types with 'Sinister Dexter' and the perfect 2000ad story 'Kingdom' underline the point. A creator utterly at ease with his medium and able to use it to tell the stories he wants in entirely different ways. I'd compare him to Carlos - bear with me - so great at his craft, so easy on the eye that he's deceptive about the level of the genius he employs.

AlexF

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Re: RESULTS - The Rebellion Years Top 10 Series - Tournament
« Reply #31 on: 05 July, 2020, 10:12:10 AM »
Comparing Abnett to Carlos is dead on, I'd say. Now I'm said the King never did a Sinister Dexter.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: RESULTS - The Rebellion Years Top 10 Series - Tournament
« Reply #32 on: 05 July, 2020, 10:45:48 AM »
If anyone hasn't listened to the latest thrillcast with Ian Culbard, it's well worth it. It's wide-ranging and very entertaining, and Ian talks about Brink at some length — some of the stuff about his process (particularly how he makes the characters 'act') is fascinating.

Whilst it's right that Dan gets lauded for his work on Brink, I think it's important to remember that Ian's contribution goes beyond just realising Dan's words in visual form — it would likely be a very different, and possibly not as successful, strip with another artist.
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Greg M.

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Re: RESULTS - The Rebellion Years Top 10 Series - Tournament
« Reply #33 on: 05 July, 2020, 10:55:06 AM »
I've reflected on the fact that I've recently seen Dabnett's work describe as 'Ultra, ultra, ultra competent' (I might misquote slightly)

I only used two ultras, not three. That'd be pushing it.

As I've said repeatedly, I think Abnett's very good at what he does. I go into any new Abnett strip with an open mind, ready to enjoy. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I deny none of the man's technical ability - which to me would suggest a very high degree of competence. His ideas are perfectly decent.
« Last Edit: 05 July, 2020, 10:59:53 AM by Greg M. »

Colin YNWA

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Re: RESULTS - The Rebellion Years Top 10 Series - Tournament
« Reply #34 on: 05 July, 2020, 11:33:40 AM »
I've reflected on the fact that I've recently seen Dabnett's work describe as 'Ultra, ultra, ultra competent' (I might misquote slightly)

I only used two ultras, not three. That'd be pushing it.

Well if you can't go to that third ultra you are dead to me!

Colin YNWA

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Re: RESULTS - The Rebellion Years Top 10 Series - Tournament
« Reply #35 on: 05 July, 2020, 11:44:25 AM »
Whilst it's right that Dan gets lauded for his work on Brink, I think it's important to remember that Ian's contribution goes beyond just realising Dan's words in visual form — it would likely be a very different, and possibly not as successful, strip with another artist.

That's a very fair point and while I do seem to naturally lean towards thinking about the writing I do normally try to reflect on how the art realises the story as written. I guess with all the writer tourney nonsense I've got even more singular in my view.

I mean imagine Tsar Wars done by anyone other than John M Burns - its hard to do, or 'Sympathy with the Devil' without Simon Fraser's character work.

Specifically about INJ Culbard its problably even more impressive that he has two strips in the top ten than Dabnett having 3 in the top 11 (yes, yes it does grate that I have to stretch that to 11!)  given the time taken to produce the art. And there's an interesting comparison to the point I made earlier about the diversity of Dabnett's work when you consider the two tales that chart for him.

While Brink is close and enclosured, tight and constricted, Brass Sun by its nature is open and exploratory, vast and roaming and to have created two such different world's and atmopheres is absolute testement to his ability.

Its all of course anchered by his brilliant 'acting'. The way he makes his characters live and breath. In Brink in particular I see behind the eye of each sentence they say.

Edited to be rude: We could also talk about the letterers contribution, but we all know they are just upperty typists!

Jim_Campbell

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Re: RESULTS - The Rebellion Years Top 10 Series - Tournament
« Reply #36 on: 05 July, 2020, 11:51:57 AM »
Edited to be rude: We could also talk about the letterers contribution, but we all know they are just upperty typists!

Actually, Ian makes a point of specifically highlighting Simon B's contribution to Brink in the thrillcast.
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Jim_Campbell

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Re: RESULTS - The Rebellion Years Top 10 Series - Tournament
« Reply #37 on: 05 July, 2020, 11:56:14 AM »
Its all of course anchered by his brilliant 'acting'. The way he makes his characters live and breath. In Brink in particular I see behind the eye of each sentence they say.

That's the part of his process I found particularly fascinating when he talks about it — once the pages are laid out, he goes through the whole episode and finishes drawing one specific character, so he's only thinking about that character, their body language, what's going on their head. Once he's drawn that character for the whole episode, he goes back to the beginning and repeats for the next character…
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broodblik

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Re: RESULTS - The Rebellion Years Top 10 Series - Tournament
« Reply #38 on: 05 July, 2020, 12:02:02 PM »
For me art is part of the story (this comics we talking about). I also discovered in recent years how important lettering is as well. All three of these elements has to come together to bring us a "perfect" story.  Certain arts type of style suits a certain type of  story. If you look at the  top three Rebellion stories all three of them has all three mentioned elements.

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Re: RESULTS - The Rebellion Years Top 10 Series - Tournament
« Reply #39 on: 05 July, 2020, 09:01:12 PM »
Abnett and the correct artist is a great point - and likely with all writers - because the early Grey Area left me cold and dill in artists were better but not saving it. Then Mark Harrison got the gig and it became much more alien and much more human. It quickly moved into my first not-Dredd read of the week.

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