carrier bags

[Old Tankie]

That's only partly true, Jim.  I ran (small) retail businesses for most of my working life.  The bottom line is the percentage of profit you make but, within that, there is much flexibility, that's how supermarkets can quickly respond to price cuts by rivals.  They're saving money by cutting back on check-out staff and they could easily give a discount to people using the self-service check-outs, they just don't want to.

Buildings can be re-sold to recover the costs or you keep the building for so long that the profit margin covers the building costs in the end.

[JamesC]

I always think it's strange when I see Americans in films struggling with large paper grocery bags which have to be held from the bottom (like in Ghostbusters). They seem to be far behind us in carrier bag technology (but further ahead in their packaging of Chinese take-away. I really like those cool little cardboard cartons).

[Old Tankie]

Grugz, you're right, as I said to Jim, there's absolutely no reason why they couldn't give a discount.  And, as for your previous post about fixtures and fittings, I'm afraid your missus is slightly wrong, Mate, "fixtures and fittings" is a literal term and it means just that, things that are fixed and fitted.  At the end of a lease you have to leave the property exactly as it was when you took it over.  That's why sometimes you see workmen in an empty shop that has just closed, it's being put back to its original state.

[TordelBack]

I've never really understood this policy. Perhaps 5p is enough to make some people care a bit more about bags, rather than using a million of them or chucking them away in the street. But shops will still be selling plastic bags for trash, which don't bio-degrade, for very low prices. And you can spend 15p or so on a 'bag for life', which will likely last under a year, and yet from an environmental standpoint 'cost' quite a bit to make.

It feels very much nibbling at the edges, not least when the government's just axed loads of subsidy for renewable energy, and is happily getting the Chinese to fund a French nuclear power station.

No, it's not going to stop all environmental degradation worldwide. Going purely from personal observation of how this has worked in Ireland, plastic carrier bags hardly exist anymore, and you never see the trees and lanes festooned with them like you used to.  A big family shop can easily use 10 carrier bags, but I've had the same dozen or so reeusable canvas ones in my car now for... Ever?  And I use a small rucksack with a few extra lightweight bags in it for top-up shops, and paper bags for casual purchases.  I can't remember the last time I got a new bag.

It's a small thing, but its simple, it does make a difference, and it works - it's a matter of pride not to get stung paying for bags. Next thing would be to tackle product packaging, something I think will be more enthusiasmfor now there's been a shift in attitude and practice to carrier bags. Baby steps.

[IndigoPrime]

Yeah, I think changes in packaging are a must. You so often see huge plastic cocoons around items, purely to make them appear more valuable. Food's also a major issue there. We shouldn't need plastic trays for four tomatoes. And yet even the largest supermarkets locally quite often have little or no loose fruit and veg.

As for bags, I think my hope is it'll just go wider. Sure, it's great if people aren't thoughtlessly throwing out plastic bags after every shop, but if people continue to create as much waste as they do, it is, indeed, merely the tiniest of baby steps. I suppose it's something at least.

(On packaging, I'm also seeing real oddness due to online shopping. Amazon purchases now quite often arrive in absurdly large card boxes. And the likes of Next is retreating from the highstreet and minimising in-store stock, encouraging you to essentially buy a load of stuff, try it at home, and then take it back. It's just bonkers.)

[Grugz]

Grugz, you're right, as I said to Jim, there's absolutely no reason why they couldn't give a discount.  And, as for your previous post about fixtures and fittings, I'm afraid your missus is slightly wrong, Mate, "fixtures and fittings" is a literal term and it means just that, things that are fixed and fitted.  At the end of a lease you have to leave the property exactly as it was when you took it over.  That's why sometimes you see workmen in an empty shop that has just closed, it's being put back to its original state.

fair enuff, I think she meant they factored the price of bags in to the price of stock as they would with staff, but its been a looong time since she worked in retail, the civil service got their claws in her instead.

[IndigoPrime]

I always think it's strange when I see Americans in films struggling with large paper grocery bags which have to be held from the bottom (like in Ghostbusters).

I imagine things vary wildly across the USA. Where we usually shop during trips to Florida, the store's gone from paper to plastic. But by the same token, recycling is relatively rare in the region.

[sheridan]

Yeah, I think changes in packaging are a must. You so often see huge plastic cocoons around items, purely to make them appear more valuable. Food's also a major issue there. We shouldn't need plastic trays for four tomatoes. And yet even the largest supermarkets locally quite often have little or no loose fruit and veg.

I don't like over-packaging, but I'm not a fan when they go too far in the other direction either, and tomatoes are a quite soft and squidgy fruit...

[Jim_Campbell]

Grugz, you're right, as I said to Jim, there's absolutely no reason why they couldn't give a discount.

I didn't suggest that they couldn't. I said that there are lots of costs built in to the pricing, and you don't get to demand a discount based on a line-by-line assessment of which of those costs are inapplicable to you as a customer.

Cheers

Jim

[Link Prime]

it's a mark of shameful stupidity to be caught without your own bag.

Too true.
Walking into a supermarket in ROI without your own bag(s) has been an insta-fail for about a decade.

Some supermarkets (Dunnes Stores, Aldi) don't even have the 'standard' bag on sale anymore, so you're forced to buy a 'bag for life' if you're haplessly caught short (anything from €0.45 to €1.00).

The 'standard' bags are now on average €0.25, and pretty poor quality- particularly the ones supplied by Tesco. The razor sharp edges of a box of Alpen will reduce it to shreds in about 4 minutes.

Like Alex mentions up-thread, I keep a pretty big supply of reusable plastic bags in my car- it's the only way to be sure.

[TordelBack]

One of the interesting developments in the post-bag world has been the impromptu recycling of boxes in Lidl - rather than shell out for a 'bag for life' if you cock up and forget yours you can just grab a used cardboard box from the pile a the end of the shelves, or even (as I have done) deploy the contents of a half-full one onto the appropriate shelves, and use that. Then at the other end you either have a handy cardboard box, or into the recycling bin it goes, but with one additional use wrung out of it.  If this could be be extended to packing produce in supermarkets, I think we really would be getting somewhere.

[Old Tankie]

Not sure anybody was demanding anything, Jim.  Supermarkets set their discounts anyway they want.  They're not giving discounts at self-service check-outs at the moment because they're obviously satisfied with the footfall through them.  Of course, this could all change tomorrow and they could offer a discount on prices at self-service check-outs to get more people using them.  It would be no different to offering a discount on a cauliflower.

[Dandontdare]

One of the interesting developments in the post-bag world has been the impromptu recycling of boxes in Lidl - rather than shell out for a 'bag for life' if you cock up and forget yours you can just grab a used cardboard box from the pile a the end of the shelves, or even (as I have done) deploy the contents of a half-full one onto the appropriate shelves, and use that. Then at the other end you either have a handy cardboard box, or into the recycling bin it goes, but with one additional use wrung out of it.  If this could be be extended to packing produce in supermarkets, I think we really would be getting somewhere.

That used to be standard practice 40 years ago. I remember as a little 'un going to the co-op with my gran - she used to let me climb into the box-area to hunt for exactly the right sized box - great fun, like a ball-pool! (and then when we got back to hers, I would stick all her divi stamps in to the books)

[Anzati]

One of the interesting developments in the post-bag world has been the impromptu recycling of boxes in Lidl - rather than shell out for a 'bag for life' if you cock up and forget yours you can just grab a used cardboard box from the pile a the end of the shelves, or even (as I have done) deploy the contents of a half-full one onto the appropriate shelves, and use that. Then at the other end you either have a handy cardboard box, or into the recycling bin it goes, but with one additional use wrung out of it.  If this could be be extended to packing produce in supermarkets, I think we really would be getting somewhere.

That used to be standard practice 40 years ago. I remember as a little 'un going to the co-op with my gran - she used to let me climb into the box-area to hunt for exactly the right sized box - great fun, like a ball-pool! (and then when we got back to hers, I would stick all her divi stamps in to the books)

Hahaha I was just about to say the same thing...I used to wait in the box area while my nan collected her shopping...lots of fun was had making forts and spaceships 

I've been hoarding carrier bags for the last year and a half and have enough to keep me in bin liners for the next couple of years...but once they have run out I guess this'll force me to consider buying 'proper' bin liners 

[Goaty]

It's only a plastic bag.

It's only a 5p.