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Author Topic: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread  (Read 97275 times)

AlexF

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #765 on: 13 June, 2019, 10:36:11 am »
Well gosh dammit if you don't make a compelling case for 1999 as 2000AD's best year, even though I'd never have picked it out just from an off-the-top-of-my-head sample. I was going to criticise it for not having enough variety of thrills, but frankly that's exactly what the old Golden Age was like, and that surely suffered from the long, slow and steady decline of Rogue Trooper.

Nikolai Dante and Sinister Dexter are both very good, aren't they, even if for entirely different reasons. I do think there's a case to be made that the one-off funny SinDex episodes were better than the one-off funny Dredds - and typically had more interesting art - in this period, anyway.

You know, if you're looking for controversial opinions on this thread.

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #766 on: 14 June, 2019, 06:28:21 am »
Well gosh dammit if you don't make a compelling case for 1999 as 2000AD's best year, even though I'd never have picked it out just from an off-the-top-of-my-head sample.

You know I was surprised myself and just like you would never have pulled it out the air.

Nikolai Dante and Sinister Dexter are both very good, aren't they, even if for entirely different reasons. I do think there's a case to be made that the one-off funny SinDex episodes were better than the one-off funny Dredds - and typically had more interesting art - in this period, anyway.

You know, if you're looking for controversial opinions on this thread.

You know I could certainly see how that case could be made... I'd need to look back but it very possible.

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #767 on: 17 June, 2019, 09:21:52 pm »
Okay so something I've never quite known and I'm reminded of from the bubstandard John Smith Pussyfoot 5 offering. He has a reoccuring villian... well reoccuring of sorts. Here they are called Vathek. In tyranny Rex Deus Ex Machina its Reverend Gabriel Haze and I can't remember and am too lazy to look up what they're called in Firekind. Do they appear elsewhere as well? I can't remember immediately but it wouldn't surprise me. Anyway we we know what's up with that? Do we know what's up with Pussyfoot 5 come to that. Not John Smith at this best and it comes back after the first story concludes in Prog 1188 as I recall.

Also wrapping up in 1188 is Missionary Man - Promised Man. Gordon Rennie is more than ably assisted by a host of top rate artists on this 15 part epic. Its not quite as strong as I remember and while a fun reworking of the classic Cursed Earth trip as vehicle for multiple substories I seemed to remember the theme of faith and the Grud fueled defender came through stronger than I got on this reading. This time while it played with the idea it didn't do much more than use Cain as Pale Rider, while others faith leads our Cursed Earth pilgrims to all sorts of perils. Maybe I just read it in the wrong frame of mind this time.
 
Still enjoyed it immensely I shiould say, its just not as strong as I recall.

Greg M.

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #768 on: 17 June, 2019, 09:53:56 pm »
He has a reoccuring villian... well reoccuring of sorts. Here they are called Vathek. In tyranny Rex Deus Ex Machina its Reverend Gabriel Haze and I can't remember and am too lazy to look up what they're called in Firekind. Do they appear elsewhere as well? I can't remember immediately but it wouldn't surprise me. Anyway we we know what's up with that?

Mr. Vathek in Pussyfoot 5 and Mr. Cheetl in Firekind are both members of the Chadarisq-Khan, a race of hooved intergalactic torturers. The chap in Tyranny Rex looks a bit like one, but, if I remember rightly, isn't one.

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #769 on: 17 June, 2019, 10:13:56 pm »
He has a reoccuring villian... well reoccuring of sorts. Here they are called Vathek. In tyranny Rex Deus Ex Machina its Reverend Gabriel Haze and I can't remember and am too lazy to look up what they're called in Firekind. Do they appear elsewhere as well? I can't remember immediately but it wouldn't surprise me. Anyway we we know what's up with that?

Mr. Vathek in Pussyfoot 5 and Mr. Cheetl in Firekind are both members of the Chadarisq-Khan, a race of hooved intergalactic torturers. The chap in Tyranny Rex looks a bit like one, but, if I remember rightly, isn't one.

Thanks Greg that rings a lot of bells.

Funt Solo

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #770 on: 17 June, 2019, 10:34:36 pm »
Pussyfoot 5 was indeed short-lived and (at least up to 2014) consisted of only two series (both of which were reprinted in the Meg 281 floppy): Fast Breeder (1184-1188) and Alien Sex Fiend (1251-1256).

I found Missionary Man to be very hit and miss (story-wise) but often a showcase for great art.

fate amenable to change

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #771 on: 18 June, 2019, 08:12:46 pm »
I have nothing to say except...



I hug you Jim Campbell you are magnificent.

Funt Solo

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #772 on: 18 June, 2019, 08:16:14 pm »
Yay!
fate amenable to change

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #773 on: 19 June, 2019, 09:21:33 pm »
I still have nothing to say I just wanted to do



That again...

... well okay yeah I do have some stuff to whitter about from Progs 1190 - 1192. First 1190 sees the first book of Dante - Tsar Wars ends and by God the ending is magnificent. You can kinda sum up the whole of this story like this:

Episode 1: Supreme stage setting elevating the scale of the strip to brutally represent the scale of the war
Middle bit: The mission
Episode 8: Tense ending to mission, comedy moment to lighten the mood - but really serving only to lull you into the full impact of the magnificently terrible final page. Serving to show whatever the scale of the war (see episode 1) its the savage impact on the personal level, often of non combatants, that still matters most.

Now of course that completely neglects the fact that the 'middle bit' is also a quite frankly genius bit of storytelling by Morrison (R) and Burns (J).  The wonderful balance of action, character and comedy moments is just so well handled.

Highlight of Prog 1191 is a brilliant one off Dredd - 'Slow crime day' that I didn't really remember - god only knows why - a delightful look at how Judges handle just the day the title suggests and the victim of their time filled hands.

Another surprise is Tales of Telguuth. Now I don't like Tales of Telguuth I find it a limited format for done in ones, BUT this opener is fantastic. Brilliantly setting the scene, crafting the world and weaving it all masterfully into a gripping if simple story by Steve Moore all rendered quite devinely by Greg Staples.

Prog 1192 is another 4 story Prog - as have the previous 3 as well. This one fills the gap in seeming desperation, were as the previous at least did it with great double sized strips. In Prog 1192 there two Dredd's one by Wagner (with Laurence Campbell) which is great and one by Roland Grey (with Dylan Teague and 'K. Brighton') I don't know Roland Grey - I'm not sure he graces 2000ad again (?) and to be honest its just not great.

Interesting though the way folks pop in and out of our lives and leave little behind.

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #774 on: 22 June, 2019, 09:13:55 pm »


Ain't ever going to get tired of that.

Anyway so we charge up to Prog 1200 and all that will trim, with a decnt line-up, one I thought would be more hit 'n miss but in all honestly only really has one stinker. I have to say Slaine Secret Commonwealth is everything its reputation has it to be. Its just. The art is poor, very very poor. The storytelling is abysmal, the colouring jarring, the figure work awkward and inconsistant and the blurring and toning unpleasent on the eye. I'm not sure what happened to David Bircham and I hope he's found his niche, just on the evidence of his 2000ad work comics isn't it. The story is pretty dire, or at least has nothing strong enough to make me care about anything in it enough to fight through the art. By this point Slaine has become tired cliche and in much need of the rest I think it gets after this story.

I was thinking I'd also be adding Tales of Telguuth alongside Slaine as a poor set of stories, but you know what I'm really enjoying them. Okay a couple do fall into the formula I remember them having, but the vast majority have been superb little catchy pop tunes of comic stories. There's nothing going to change your world, but by George they are well crafted. I do wonder how they will do on the 'tricky second album' when that might not be enough to carry them. Maybe that's where this series gets its place in my mind. Still cracking stuff to this point.

As has been Dredd in Prog 1193 we get what I think is Jock's debut in the Prog and its great. Maybe not quite at his best yet but close enough. The story 'Shirley Temple of Doom' is a blinder as well. John Wagner writes a wickedly cold tale of block insurance, Judical frustration and poor ol' Judge Stark meeting a grusome end. Its a mini masterpiece.

Speaking of which Sinister Dexter enters what for me is their golden period as 'Mission to Mangapore' ends the Death of Demi arc in fine, fine sci-fi action thriller mood. With twists, turns, crosses and double crosses, action, baddies thought dead springing back into action... its just excellent. The two part follow up 'Life Behind Bars' sees Rocky Rhodes reopen All Bar One and shows what a rich vein of form Dabnett will be on as he broadens the range of the strip now this Death of Demi opus is other. The stories starting in Eurocrash have been good, no GREAT, but Dabnett is about to show us he can get even better.

All of this is topped off quite beautifully with the second part of Kreeler Conspiracy. Which sees Johnny's return continue without missing a beat. The dubious narrator trick working wonderfully to leave the series open and Wagner and Ezquerra bring Johnny to his brutal best. This is just a superb story and one I'm very glad they had the courage to see through.

So there we have it Prog 1199 flies by and we see a logo depart (much needed too if I'm honest) and if my corrected facts are correct David Bishop leaving 2000ad. Many claim Andy Diggle helped save 2000ad. I have no behind the scenes insights but speaking on the numbers alone David Bishop left as editor with the comic in a much MUCH better place than it was when he took over. A much better place. I also have significent reservations about how Andy Diggle will handle his time in charge. But that's to come soon. For now I will salute David Bishop the most underrated editor 2000ad has had and a true guardian of the comic and one who should be lauded.

I'm off for a short break as I Waid into some Daredevil I think but I'll be back before you can shake a billy club, have no fear.


Leigh S

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #775 on: 22 June, 2019, 09:57:31 pm »
it's a blurry editorial line I suspect due to Diggle being deputy Ed with Bishop for a good while before his short but eventful time in the command module hot seat?

Leigh S

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #776 on: 22 June, 2019, 09:59:13 pm »
MODIFY WHERE ART THOU??

Just to add, I think Diggle as deputy was a good thing for Bishop, as he brought an old school fan sensibility that balanced old and new pretty well - I really must doa  prog slog myself to see what I think of his solo editorising!

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #777 on: 22 June, 2019, 10:29:15 pm »
As I recall it takes his 'shot glass of rocket fuel' idea too far. For me the Bishop era (all be it with Andy D as deputy and apparently with increasing remit as time went on?) was at its strongest when he developed strong, long running series. With Sinister Dexter and Nikolai Dante. This is further evidenced by how great 1999 was with a number of other long running stories. Seemed to give the Prog the stability it needed to move past the experimentation of growing up.

With Andy D nothing got time to settle and what might have been great stories never got to develop beyond the concept as he was keen to blast onto the next thing.

But lets see how I get on this time.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #778 on: 23 June, 2019, 03:23:18 pm »
As I recall it takes his 'shot glass of rocket fuel' idea too far.

Remember, as we’ve discussed before, that it’s possible to read too much into the ‘rocket fuel’ memo, which Andy intended as a general statement of intent, not a cast iron policy.

It tends to get conflated with the truncation of stories like A Love Like Blood, Storming Heaven, and a couple of others, but that didn’t happen because of the ‘rocket fuel’ memo, it happened because of an overseas reprint deal in the offing which was conditional on stories hitting a very specific page-length and not one page more. When the deal fell through, the restriction was lifted and stories of more varied length became possible again.
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Leigh S

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #779 on: 23 June, 2019, 06:08:45 pm »
what Jim said - by (un?)happy coincidence, Rebellion wanted 44-46 page (self contained?) tales for a reprint deal that was about at the time, so some great ideas got squished.  I seem to recall Rennie's Storming Heaven as a possible victim of that - could have been a great reinvention of the 60s counterculture as Super Hero,  but needed time to breathe - like introduce Manson in book 3! That said, not sure what the outlook was for doing Book 1, Book 2, Book 3 etc