Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 

Author Topic: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread  (Read 40952 times)

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 13185
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #585 on: 07 September, 2018, 09:17:07 pm »
Boy and I thought swapping out Luke Kirby for Grudge-father in Prog 878 was a bad deal and the we get to

Prog 881

Didn't think we'd get to this but the line-up in this Prog is:

Dredd - by Steelgrave and Austin
Grudge-father - Millar and McCarthy (Jim)
Dinosity - Mills and Langley
Robo-Hunter - Millar and Jacob
Clown 2 - Goldkind and Bliss

For me, on paper that a 0 out of 5. Haven't seen that before. I mean its not necessarily the creative line-ups. I've loved some Mills and Langely, but Dinosity is a muddy mess and... well some of the artists are top draw... but ouch...

As it happens I quite like the Manchu Candidate. As I recall (well from some comments here that I remember, not my shakey noggin!) it doesn't really go anywhere, or at least the Sino City stuff. But as a story its okay.

When you look at that line up and reflect on Tyranny Rex: Deus Ex Machina which has just departed, you begin to realise that during this time the Prog is hanging on with a few fine, fine writers and whatever they produce. John Smith showed an absoutely devine skill in using the two parts of this Tyranny story to shift tone, and in the second part, for large parts at least, as Tyranny becomes her old self the purple prose disappears and its a gloriously realised race against time. The clock being counted in nuns and approaching sea horses. The world then crashes and Tyranny ascends and the tone shifts again with it. Even though its not Smith's best its a masterclass...

... but he's one man and while some others pop up with gems, with Mills in a real low point and Wagner off busy elsewhere and Ennis called away it shouldn't really be a surpise we came to this!

Jim_Campbell

  • 2000AD Creator
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 12282
  • Letterer to the Stars! (and PJ)
    • View Profile
    • deviantArt Gallery
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #586 on: 07 September, 2018, 09:21:51 pm »
Yeah. We’re at the absolute bottom here. I think I singled out 883 as the worst prog ever, but it’s probably got the same line-up… anyone who says any prog in the last twenty years was “as bad as the 90s” clearly never read anything in the 880s.
Eagle Award Nominated Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 13185
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #587 on: 07 September, 2018, 10:04:51 pm »
Yeah. We’re at the absolute bottom here. I think I singled out 883 as the worst prog ever, but it’s probably got the same line-up… anyone who says any prog in the last twenty years was “as bad as the 90s” clearly never read anything in the 880s.

I actually read 883 tonight as well and I think I agree that 883 is probably worse. The difference is of course is Dinosity or Babe Race 2000 worse. The answer is simple, while Dinosity is an awful mess at least its not an apalling awful mess like Babe Race 2000.

Just that 881 was the first to get to the 0 out of 5 thrills that meant I popped for that.

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 13185
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #588 on: 09 September, 2018, 09:32:45 pm »
Blooming heck these are rough times.

882 - same line up as 881 and just as bad

883 - as alluded to Dinosity gives way to Babe Race 2000 - which a real 2000ad low point (the story as well as the Prog), just a nasty strip.

884 - Grudge Father steps aside for the return of Luke Kirby in the satisfying but not as good as the previous teo Sympathy with the Devil and John Higgins plays with Dredd, so two postives.

885 - Robo-Hunter is replaced with a weak Bradley I didn't really enjoy, but did more than Robo-hunter. Its not an improvement worth getting too excited about

886 - We have the line-up that will see us through to relaunch. Dredd (very poor), Clown, Babe Race, Luke Kirby and Bradley. Its rough. The most interesting thing is the fact that the Dredd seems to be a story very much lost in time  as its clearly a direct follow up from Inferno, and we didn't need reminding about that!

887 and 888 as you where then.

So there we have it. Early to mid 1994 stamps over those green shoots of recovery. Firmly. Roll on Prog 889 and its all new line-up... the back cover of 888 gives me some hope that things will get better but from this lowest of low points that's not really saying much is it!

Lobo Baggins

  • Member
  • Posting Machine
  • ***
  • Posts: 1302
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #589 on: 11 September, 2018, 08:40:41 am »
Ugh - you'd think something called Babe Race 2000 would be sexy and funny, and failing that, sexy OR funny. But it's neither.  It doesn't even have a plot, it's just a load of mindless dismemberments.

Who was this even aimed at?
The wages of sin are death, but the hours are good and the perks are fantastic.

Link Prime

  • Member
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 4511
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #590 on: 11 September, 2018, 09:15:59 am »

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 13185
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #591 on: 11 September, 2018, 09:31:54 pm »
Well lets move past all that and enjoy what the relaunch prog 889 has to offer hey and by George its a solid turn around... I mean its not perfect but thank Tharg its step in the right direction. Mind it has the MASSIVE advantage of

WAGNER BACK ON DREDD...

... okay so Time Machine isn't the best but

WAGNER BACK ON DREDD

... the follow up Conspiracy of Silence is shapin' up nicely... even if Mark Harrison just doesn't seem ready for the big time yet. He has his traditonal storytelling issues but added to this some dodgy anatomy... he goes much better pretty quickly as I recall...still

WAGNER BACK ON DREDD.

There's much more to say about the stories coming out of 889, but that can wait for now I'll just revel on...

... well you got it by now.

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 13185
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #592 on: 12 September, 2018, 10:09:42 pm »
So the post 889 line-up starts to draw to a close. In Prog 896 two thrills end. But before I get to them I'll just segway to my old sparing partner Rogue Trooper which has tried to spread its wings.

In 889 it got a new creative team in a four part story. The ever brilliant Henry Flint, maybe not fully formed, but still really great on the eye in this his first (it was his first right?) 2000ad work. New (wayhey) writer Steve White tries what I think is a new narrative trick of having captions giving narrative from Rogue ... this might not be new but its the first time for quite some time I've been paying enough attention to really notice if not... anyway all it serves to do is make me find new ways to think Rogue is a bit of a rubblish character... when will I learn each time I see something new on this series I give it a try, with as open a mind as possible... by its return in 896 I'm already losing hope.

Still 889 did bring a number of strips I enjoyed to varying degrees. Firstly Mambo which to be honest I've not paid a great deal of attention to before. It first appeared when I was living it up at Uni and I'm not sure how engaged I got with it when catching up getting home. In subsequent re-reads I think I'd set it in my head it was a bit rubbish and again not really invested. Which is a shame cos its pretty good. Future cop, body horror pretty much gets you up to speed with what its about.

It does have one major fault and that's the way rather than trying to weave the back story into the developing adventure, after an all too brief introduction of a couple of parts, we get a great big 3 and 1/2 part sloppy dollop of back story ejaculated all over us. The thing is its very enjoyable. Just messy and all loose in its delivery. Shame as part 7 inserting back into the 'current' story we were so abruptly pulled out of, is just superb and the fate of Mambo's father is gloriously grim even for the body tentacle shocker. I'm really looking forward to this returning as I remember nowt about them and hopefully with the sticky matter of that setup thrust so harshly into our thrill holes out the way, we'll be able to grab the extending flesh bits and run.

No such problem in Slaine, which I really love. The tale of Boudica and Slaine rampaging through Roman Britain until their inevitable defeat is just great fun. The violence and adventure stride to the forefront and the revisiting of the same themes slides patiently to the background. Not gone, which is a good thing, but not dominant and smoothering. Characters are wonderfully black and white, while shaded in grey superficially.

The art however radiates wonderful painted colour used so well, as so often its not.

Elfric and all the El stuff so gunned down by lasers in the past is allowed to shine in true fixed grin evil. Seriously this is all some of my favourite Slaine stuff. As I've said I rate this stuff more than ya Horned God. Okay so I should whine about some historical stuff that Pat's famous research got a little wrong - based on my historical research, but then I don't recall there being a 20 foot warped warrior and a blue demon in any of the stuff I read so best to move on and just roll in the fun.

More stuff will be ending soon and I WILLBETELLINGYOU all about it...

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 13185
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #593 on: 13 September, 2018, 09:31:20 pm »
Time for some quick points as we take a break before the interesting experiment that is Prog 900.

1. Chris Standley - who I don't remember doing anything else in the Prog (we got a thread for that now) did a couple of really interesting and fun Dredds in 'Moving Violation' and 'TV Babies'.

2. Peter Doherty on art duties for both sure helps.

3. Mike White's cameo on Armoured Gideon might be a lot shorter than I remembered but by George (or Frank, or Bill, Or Rick, Or Wolfie...) what a trimpuh it is.

4. I really don't like those caption boxes in Rogue Trooper.

5. But I really do like Henry Flints proto-art on it.

6. Happy with the short return of Strontium Dogs, its a fun little turn.

7. Very happy with the short return of Brigand Doom. My theory that this strip was a classic deminishing returns was utter poppycock. This last thrill (is it???) is absolutely great.

8. Arh the movie news in 898 ... I remember getting so excited about it all.

9. The Wagner Dredd in 899, with Ron Smith, is great and I don't help but think it was intended to be an 'intro' Dredd for a jump on Prog. Very possibly 900 before the Rogue experiment.

10. I have no memory of the 'Jaguar' games console that gets a full page spread in 899

11. I've always had very fond memories of Armoured Gideon 'The Collector' and it really hold up. Its such fun. The appearance of the old characters has a really good context provided by The Collector and feels more than a cheap way to appeal to the old crowd, while at the same time being just that... which meant it appealed to me then and now. Oh and Frank Weitz remains a superb character... is this it for Armoured Gideon too? If so like Brigand Doom it ends on a high... if either of them end...

I, Cosh

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 9092
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #594 on: 14 September, 2018, 07:47:55 am »
10. I have no memory of the 'Jaguar' games console that gets a full page spread in 899

The only thing you need to know is there was a fighting game with a Scotchman who could  shoot fireballs from under his kilt[/url.
We never really die.

abelardsnazz

  • Member
  • Sentient Tea Bot
  • **
  • Posts: 463
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #595 on: 14 September, 2018, 12:38:22 pm »

1. Chris Standley - who I don't remember doing anything else in the Prog (we got a thread for that now) did a couple of really interesting and fun Dredds in 'Moving Violation' and 'TV Babies'.

I seem to recall him receiving a co-writing credit on some Tyranny Rex - Soft Bodies, possibly - although neither Barney nor Wikipedia confirm this. Any of the hive mind know?

Jim_Campbell

  • 2000AD Creator
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 12282
  • Letterer to the Stars! (and PJ)
    • View Profile
    • deviantArt Gallery
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #596 on: 14 September, 2018, 12:54:47 pm »
I seem to recall him receiving a co-writing credit on some Tyranny Rex - Soft Bodies, possibly - although neither Barney nor Wikipedia confirm this. Any of the hive mind know?

Yes. I remember a couple of co-writing credits with Smiffy (he also introduced John to German goth band 'Love Like Blood'* which John then used on the series of the same name) and he created Harmony for the Meg, I think.


*Yes, yes, I thought it was a Killing Joke reference, too…
Eagle Award Nominated Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 13185
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #597 on: 14 September, 2018, 09:26:30 pm »
10. I have no memory of the 'Jaguar' games console that gets a full page spread in 899

The only thing you need to know is there was a fighting game with a Scotchman who could  shoot fireballs from under his kilt[/url.

Wow... that's a ... thing...

Funt Solo

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 5714
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #598 on: 14 September, 2018, 10:52:52 pm »
 We Scots can all shoot fireballs from under our kilts, but we don’t like to show off.
fate amenable to change

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 13185
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #599 on: 23 September, 2018, 09:05:17 pm »
Prog 900

DREDD vs ROGUE TROOPER - first ever Prog long story. Wagner and Higgins for like 28 pages. Roxilla ... well okay let's skip that... all out ACTION...

... you'd think I'd have a lot to say about it wouldn't you. After all I've woffled this much nonsense so far... trouble is its all a bit bland. Feels cranked together and weak. Even Higgins art feels half hearted and washed out.

Such a shame, such a wasted opportunity.