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Author Topic: Space Spinner 2000AD  (Read 205529 times)

milstar

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Re: Space Spinner 2000AD
« Reply #1860 on: 18 April, 2021, 04:30:27 PM »
So what do you make of Fargo's hot take on the Judge System as Overlords in Origins?

http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2012/08/01/f-is-for-fargo-and-fargo-clones/

Democracy "could" coexist with the Justice Dept - it would mean the law would be from (and for) the Citizens rather than "what's good for them/what keeps them in line", but even the founder didn't intend the Judges to assume ultimate power iindefinitely.

You can have Freedom without Justice, but can you have Justice without Freedom? If the citizens have no say in what laws are imposed on them, then that's not Justice, that's oppression, plain and simple. And if it's a great system, why are the citizens routinely prone to criminality and psychosis? 

Now, that's not to say I am not a fan of the old style futuristic "post need" elements of Mega-City One, where citizens are ostensibly free to grow their noses and head eggs into buckets (if they arent being gassed into a stupor to keep the crime rate down) - again that's some of the charm and complexity of the story - the citizens ARE in many ways stupid children, who "need" keeping in line - but what's keeping them stupid children?

That scene with Judge Fargo in Origins came to me a bit shocking because almost the identical scene was used in 1995 film (never thought that I'll see something out of it in future comics). However, the issue is more broad than simple "Judges aren't meant to be what they are meant to be (aka, totalitarian rulers)". But, they come as response to Robert Booth horrid machinations with democracy. Question why the city hasn't grown beyond that is not answered in comics, I think. Remember, it's implied that throughout these comics that not only MC1 is a totalitarian city; instead, there is MC2, Sov Mega City, etc. Which would say that every megalopolis has judges as their rulers.
Now, maybe citizens aren't actually capable of knowing what's good for themselves? That notion subtly loomed over democracy arcs, but was never answered, at least not in an explicit manner. Who knows, maybe overpopulation and unemployment do lead to catastrophical issues?
And to draw comparison with the situation in the real world, some countries are not exactly far away from MC1. But at least they have less crime rate. The ultimate truth is, what I firmly believe, is that none of us have a proper and objective scent for justice. Because we all look to it from individual perspective.

Having said all of this, my personal favorite period in Dredd comics is the earliest one, not much wit there, just loads of silly stories with ironic humor.
Reyt, you lot. Shut up, belt up, 'n if ye can't see t' bloody exit, ye must be bloody blind.

Leigh S

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Re: Space Spinner 2000AD
« Reply #1861 on: 19 April, 2021, 12:27:52 PM »
I thought all the dying Fargo reveals in the 95 film is that Dredd is a clone?  Certainly, at the end of the film, they are all beaming at the thought of continuing their jackbooted business as usual.

If the Fargo reveal makes you uncomfortable about years of rooting for Dredd, then I'd expect it was designed to

milstar

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Re: Space Spinner 2000AD
« Reply #1862 on: 19 April, 2021, 01:07:28 PM »
I thought all the dying Fargo reveals in the 95 film is that Dredd is a clone?  Certainly, at the end of the film, they are all beaming at the thought of continuing their jackbooted business as usual.

If the Fargo reveal makes you uncomfortable about years of rooting for Dredd, then I'd expect it was designed to

It came odd as  never thought that I'd witness basically the same scene (where Judges aren't meant to be the definite solution for the MC1) from the movie in a comic decade afterwards. I guess, flawed it is, 1995 film broke some new mold for its time.
Reyt, you lot. Shut up, belt up, 'n if ye can't see t' bloody exit, ye must be bloody blind.

sheridan

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Re: Space Spinner 2000AD
« Reply #1863 on: 19 April, 2021, 01:09:09 PM »
I thought all the dying Fargo reveals in the 95 film is that Dredd is a clone?  Certainly, at the end of the film, they are all beaming at the thought of continuing their jackbooted business as usual.

If the Fargo reveal makes you uncomfortable about years of rooting for Dredd, then I'd expect it was designed to

It came odd as  never thought that I'd witness basically the same scene (where Judges aren't meant to be the definite solution for the MC1) from the movie in a comic decade afterwards. I guess, flawed it is, 1995 film broke some new mold for its time.

King Carlos himself took a design element or two from the film (can't remember what - something to do with the lawmaster?) so that film did have some good points.  Just a pity it wasn't the story, dialogue or codpieces.

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: Space Spinner 2000AD
« Reply #1864 on: 19 April, 2021, 01:57:05 PM »
I remember the little bumps near the chin of the movie helmet appeared in Carlos's version around the time when The Pit was published, and some of the other Pit artists followed suit.  Thankfully the codpiece and lycra leggings didn't.
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”

Leigh S

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Re: Space Spinner 2000AD
« Reply #1865 on: 19 April, 2021, 02:20:47 PM »
Maybe my memeory is faulty here Mistar, but doe Fargo really say "we must undo the Judge system" in the film?

He reveals that Dredd and Rico are clones and that Griffin(?) needs stopping - can;t recall anything about overturning the Judge system  -just stopping Griffin introducing his clone army, which is pretty muchjust a reflection of Fago slapping down Judd's plans to clone everything in sight!

sheridan

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Re: Space Spinner 2000AD
« Reply #1866 on: 19 April, 2021, 02:55:11 PM »
Maybe my memeory is faulty here Mistar, but doe Fargo really say "we must undo the Judge system" in the film?

He reveals that Dredd and Rico are clones and that Griffin(?) needs stopping - can;t recall anything about overturning the Judge system  -just stopping Griffin introducing his clone army, which is pretty muchjust a reflection of Fago slapping down Judd's plans to clone everything in sight!

milstar is obviously trying to tempt us in to re-watching the 1995 film.  What's more, to do so with the volume turned up.  Nobody deserves that!

Leigh S

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Re: Space Spinner 2000AD
« Reply #1867 on: 19 April, 2021, 03:09:39 PM »
I did have a quick look to see if it was on Netflix! :p

You can probably make a better case for Galen Demarco being inspired by film Hershey than comic Fargo by film Fargo?

sheridan

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Re: Space Spinner 2000AD
« Reply #1868 on: 19 April, 2021, 03:16:38 PM »
Alright, I'll take the plunge.  I'll volunteer to watch that scene.

sheridan

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Re: Space Spinner 2000AD
« Reply #1869 on: 19 April, 2021, 03:34:08 PM »
Fargo: The blind lady.

Joseph: Who is she?

Fargo: Justice.  Before your time.  We should never have taken justice out of her hands.

Joseph: We brought order to chaos, sir.

Fargo: That we did.  Solved many problems, but created many more.  Being a judge, Joseph.  Perhaps too much power in one person's hands.  We once tried to compensate, create the perfect judge.  We called it Janus.  Four decades ago, DNA samples were taken from the original Council.  One was chosen. Mine.  We altered it to enhance
the best qualities and screen out the worst, weaknesses, frailties.  We created you.

Joseph:  You didn't create me, sir, I have a family.

Fargo: No.

Joseph: At the Academy, you told me they were killed when I was very young.

Fargo: A lie.

Joseph: I have a picture of them.

Fargo: A fake. We lied to both of you.

Joseph: Both?

Fargo: There was another infant created in that experiment, but something went wrong.  Genetically mutated
to the perfect criminal.

Joseph: I have a brother?

Fargo: You were best friends at the Academy.  Star pupils.  And then he turned.  And for his crimes, you judged him.

Joseph: Rico?  Rico.  You let me judge my own brother?  You never told me, sir.

Fargo: I couldn't!  You were like a son to me!

Joseph: A son?  My whole life is a lie.

Fargo: Rico had to be executed to protect you, to protect the city.

Joseph: Rico, Rico.  He's alive!

Fargo: No.  I signed the order myself - I saw the report.

Joseph: I didn't kill Hammond.  It was him.  It was his DNA that convicted me.

Fargo: Griffin.  It was Griffin.

Joseph: Griffin, yes. 

Fargo: We've both been deceived, Joseph.  I'm so sorry.  Rico's killed me and destroyed you!  Find him, Joseph.

Joseph: Don't die.

Fargo: -


Leigh S

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Re: Space Spinner 2000AD
« Reply #1870 on: 19 April, 2021, 04:07:22 PM »
Ah yes, well, regrets he had a few - it's not quite the same beat though  - he's more cut up about the cloning angle than instant justice - the "taking Justice out of her hands"bit is an aside rather than the main course (never served) at the end of Origins

milstar

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Re: Space Spinner 2000AD
« Reply #1871 on: 19 April, 2021, 11:43:15 PM »
Alright, I'll take the plunge.  I'll volunteer to watch that scene.

God will repay you :)

Now I can't remember the exact bits of dialogue between Dredd and Fargo, but if given excerpt is correct, then it's more or less what I remember. Which struck me when I read Origins, with Fargo basically repeating the same sentiment on the Judges. "Solved many problems, but created more". Interestingly, that angle also came from one of the major point of utter annoyance, and this is Rob Schneider.
Reyt, you lot. Shut up, belt up, 'n if ye can't see t' bloody exit, ye must be bloody blind.

SpaceSpinner2000

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Re: Space Spinner 2000AD
« Reply #1872 on: 20 April, 2021, 01:11:52 AM »
Haha, I don't post for a week and a political discussion breaks out! I haven't read Origins yet, but it's a really exciting one for me, since everyone talks about it in these discussions. But for now let's talk about some classic Dredd action!



We start our series of collected coverage of the Judge Dredd Complete Casefiles with volume one, covering progs 2 to 60. The earliest adventures of the lawman of the future, complete with long lost brothers, space olympics, robot revolutions, and overbearing housekeepers! It’s an exciting time, and we hope you’ll enjoy reliving it with us.

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Please let me know what you think of the episode!
2000 AD recap podcast, from the beginning!
Check out the show here! Or on iTunes, Google Play, or your preferred podcast app!

The Monarch

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Re: Space Spinner 2000AD
« Reply #1873 on: 20 April, 2021, 02:40:43 PM »
i am curious if you will do collections of stuff you already did as collections if i recall the contents of casefiles 2 ended up as two seperate collections in the past and i think you did a collection of casefiles 6 a while back

SpaceSpinner2000

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Re: Space Spinner 2000AD
« Reply #1874 on: 21 April, 2021, 10:43:51 AM »
i am curious if you will do collections of stuff you already did as collections if i recall the contents of casefiles 2 ended up as two seperate collections in the past and i think you did a collection of casefiles 6 a while back
Haha, I am ashamed to say that there will be some repackaging of previously released material in this new collection! Like all comics things it’s so important to recollect all collections!
2000 AD recap podcast, from the beginning!
Check out the show here! Or on iTunes, Google Play, or your preferred podcast app!