Not sure if it's me or the prog...

[blackmocco]

It may well be that 2000AD reflects the times it's living in. It's not a completely baseless theory looking back over the last forty years. With that in mind, 2000AD has more or less lost me as well, I'm sad to say. I guess there's some merit to a comic that grows up with its audience but its a dangerous game when a comic caters simply to that readership. I don't feel there's a huge effort being made to appeal to a new and, yes, younger audience. (In a hypothetically perfect incarnation, 2000AD should cater to both new and established audiences.)

I feel no vitality from the comic when I read it these days. Dredd feels stuck in mud, the likes of Brass Sun and Brink leave me cold. Deadworld has been the absolute highlight for me lately. ABC Warriors/Ro-Busters more or less hit the right buttons although I feel they're more plugging in gaps than going anywhere new. Lawless in the Meg is fantastic.

I know based on us all being different ages we probably all have a golden period we hark back to and I won't do that here but I do wish the comic had just a smidgen of the unpredictable punk rock energy I always associate with it.

Anyway.

[Woolly]

But for some time now, it's felt like a case of too many cooks. The roster of Dredd writers is impressive, and each are adding their own fascinating and exciting aspects to Dredd's world. However, at times, that exactly how it feels - several strong arcs competing and not complementing each other. As a result, consistency in MegaCity One (often cited as the star of the strip) seems to suffer.

At the moment, I genuinely don't know what I should be worrying about - it's it invisible judges in the walls? (I hate this idea by the way.) Sector Zero (virtually the same awful idea.) Texas? Brit Cit? Chaos Day fallout? Enceladus fall out? The Sovs killing a load of ex-judges? Dredd seeing and riding magical black horsies? The Mechanismo Project? Sinfield? Probably a couple of other potentially city destroying problems that I've missed?

Months seem to go by without mention of a major event, then suddenly they're back it's that writer's turn, and sometimes it's hard to be emotionally invested. I realise that gone are the days when you had one very strong writer controlling the tone and direction of the character and the city, but sometimes I genuinely wonder if the rest of the freelance writers are in contact with each other, deciding on a common direction. Is this the right thing to do or would it stifle creativity?

^Post of the Year^

I find it frustrating that there's whole raft of stories in a holding pattern for years, and we still get new stories popping up. I'm not sure it's particuarly retro to finish the story you've started before starting another one.

If Andy Diggle's memo was a shotglass of rocket fuel, it feels like we've got a whole load of half-finished pints.
.
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Maybe it's unavoidable, I know writers have waited for artists to become available which causes delays, but it's frustrating where there's an instance of two Edginton/Disraeli strips hanging around (one getting on for 4 years) and they start another Scarlet Traces.

Why should a reader invest time in something that's going to be left hanging?

^2nd place Post of the Year^

I think these are the problems with the prog right here.
Would love to know if the hanging Edgington stories are due to commissioning problems, scheduling problems, or something else.

Has anyone managed to ask the Edgington droid at a con?

[Arkwright99]

I haven't read more than the first and last (sixth) pages of this thread so forgive me if I go over ground already covered by other Squaxx, but here goes my two galactic groats...

I have an annual combi subscription, which I've just renewed early without hesitation. Although I've been buying the Prog every week (bar mishaps) since before Prog 300 (by my reckoning) I've blown hot and cold on the Meg depending on the volume of reprint material. Lawless was the strip that brought me back into that fold.

In any given week I don't read the Prog cover to cover. I typically skim/skip the Nerve Centre (sometime remember to check out the Damage Report), usually read Dredd and then read/skim/skip the other four(?) strips depending on what they are. It's one of the reasons I generally don't contribute to the weekly prog review thread (I don't necessarily feel I've properly read the issue).

Based on the current line-up I skip Brink (read the first couple of chapters but wasn't gripped and all the pages look the same so nothing jumps out and grabs me as I turn the pages); Defoe I skim to keep track of what's happening each week. I miss Leigh Gallagher's scratchy artwork, which somehow fitted the milieu and think Colin MacNeil's art feels too 'polished' in comparison. It's great but just feels too 'clean' somehow. I read Grey Area as it's a series I've come to love (in the same way as Deadworld) once I sat down and took the trouble to read it properly. The characters (Bulliet, Birdy, Bitch) are are great and while I never got on with Mark Harrison art in Durham Red it's really working for me with GA. Finally, Hunted is another skim for me. Kind of bored with the Traitor General as a character/concept tbh and would rather have more Jaegir but I realise Simon Coleby is working on Ian Livingstone's Freeway Fighter comic currently.

So, that's two definite reads (Dredd/Grey Area), two skims with possible re-reads later when complete (Defoe/Hunted) and one miss (Brink). Obviously I'd prefer to have five thrill-packed 'must-reads' every week but that's not a bad ratio. But, of course, it's not like that every week; sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse but never so bad that I get to the point of not finding something I've enjoyed.

I agree with the argument (assuming it's been made above) that Tharg should be stricter with writers submitting new serials while leaving old ones unfinished. Either they should hand them over to other people to continue if they've lost interest in them or they should bloody well complete them before starting work on another part of their personal multiverse, which will also (most likely) be left unfinished/hanging when the next shift in their mental gears kicks in.

[Richard]

That last paragraph does seem to succinctly summarise the consensus emerging in this thread.

[Daveycandlish]

I've been reading since the year 2000 (dropped off the radar years earlier and came back then) and always said to myself 'As long as I enjoy 3 out of 5, I'll keep going".
What some love (Deadworld, ABC, Slaine) totally leave me cold and what I love (Brink, Scarlet Traces) others poopooh, but surely that's just the way of an anthology.
I do think one offs should be mixed up with three-parters, ten-parters and epics just to keep the mix different. Jumping on points are all well and good but sometimes stories just seem to brake, then leave, leaving a frustrated taste.
2000AD is one of the few comics I buy regularly and will continue to do so as American comics just feel bloated in their storytelling each issue - like those six parters Doctor Who used to have in the 70s. SO much filler when you want them to get on with it!

[Professor Bear]

I too would prefer new series start with a self-contained outing, and while I am fine with regular series that introduce new supervillains every now and then, I'm not crazy about dedicating entire stories to doing so that essentially boil the strip down to an extended trailer for the character's return.  I feel that's a path that's been well-trod in the prog by now.
In fact, my only real gripe would be that I'd like to see a bit less "BOOK 2 coming soon" endings in general, or at least have endings to series that felt like actual endings, or at least tie together some plot or character arcs, or callback to the start of the story or something.  Often it feels like some stories are ending because of some unforseen behind the scenes drama.

[Frank]

I'd argue that having a good chunk of stories in limbo is not great for anyone ... finish the story you've started before starting another one.

... they need to change the writer to keep it going, just like the artist would be changed to keep a strip going.

To the best of my knowledge, Tharg has never 'changed' kicked an artist* off a strip they created and wanted to work on.

US comic publishers flip creators like Rihanna changes wigs, but the few times that works out are vastly outnumbered by the majority of titles that spiral for years/decades - and Tharg has a terrible track record of turning strips into Ford production lines**.

In the case of the many balls Edginton has in the air, he told the Thrillcast that Tharg's already bid him concentrate on existing projects***, rather than pitching new ones.


* Or a writer. Canon Fodder was more a case of Millar quitting than being fired. Gerry Finley-Day was definitely dumped, but neither The Hit nor The Golden Fox Rebellion yield much evidence that Siegel & Shustering creators works out well.

** Durham Red's the best example anyone can produce, but the first thing Abnett did when he took over was put 3000 years between bounty hunting, Johnny Alpha, and anything else that tied him to his predecessors. Mark Harrison's Red looks bugger all like Carlos's, so the creators might as well have created a new strip, VAMPGINA: anaemic space empress of the future.

*** Firing Edginton isn't a mistake Tharg would make; Matt Brooker would never sell out his friend, and nobody wants to read Leah Moore and Tom Foster's Stickleback. Reader entitlement is all very well, but I'm sort of proud Tharg doesn't treat creators like sweated labour.

[flesario]

Just my penneth worth in case Tharg is reading. I'm repeating other people but want to express myself. I am often left without any resolution in the ongoing stories- the multi book type. I need a beginning, middle and end but even the end of ten or so episode runs I am frequently left unsatisfied, I know you can't keep having conclusions but having so many series hanging at once is exhausting and ends up leaving me almost a little bleak at times. I can't remember what's going on.

[DrRocka]

I'm a big believer in the nature of the anthology meaning that there's always gonna be something I'm not fussed about: 'twas ever thus, even in the glory days of the eighties - cast your mind back, there were always things you didn't really like, but you were a kid, and so, had much more time on your hands to read them all. There wasn't the quick hit culture we have now, where new things are SCREAMING for you to read them on your phone, and you wouldn't rest until you'd read the prog cover to cover, many times, absorbing EVERYTHING. Hell, Ace Garp used to irritate the shit outta me, but I could still tell you more about what happened in it thirty years ago than what I watched on Netflix last night.

So are we all comparing the prog of now to our Glory Days nostalgia? Maybe. But there are some great points raised here. One of my favourite ongoing stories in the prog is Kingdom, for instance. Dammit, I LOVE Gene the Hackman. But I wanted his adventures to end two years ago. Seems to be getting dragged out a lot now.

Conversely, let's look at some of the reasons why British comics, in their heyday, worked: because they were always about CHARACTER. You saw Buster, or Dennis The Menace, or Desperate Dan, and you got it. There was no need to bring you up to speed. What's he up to this week? Let's see. And it was the same with Strontium Dog, or Robo Hunter, or Dredd. Hey this guy's a bounty hunter in a western in space, who's he after this week? Let's see. This guy's a cop in the future, who's he gonna shoot this week? Let's see. And then - check it out/ that guy he's chasing is his DAD! And bad shit's happening. Where are we going with this? Let's see.

I guess what I'm saying is this: we need more CHARACTERS in 2000ad right now, not more ongoing stories. We need more ADVENTURE, more devil - may - care, more this - week - you're - never - gonna - we - printed - this sense of sheer enjoyment, while still adhering to some deep story arcs.

I'm not finding much in the prog right now (Dredd and Grey Area, maybe Defoe), but I'll never drop the prog. There's always something just around the corner that'll blow my brain. But bring back those characters, Tharg. Not just the ones of our youth, but new ones who we recognise instantly as archetypes who are dealing with a world that'll expand as their adventures grow.

Because those adventures make our worlds grow, too.

[Fungus]

Well said Rocka. The sense of fun may be the thing lacking. I may be brain-addled of course, but often with The Order and Scarlet Traces and others I don't know who's in jeopardy, or why. It looks nice, but I don't much care.Very often I get by on the art.

There's a lot of clever-clever writing kicking around and I think that's a shame. It might be nostalgia, but TB Grover got it about right. I don't think times change that much.

Personal preferences on this and other threads are always interesting. Kingdom and Deadworld are unassailable favourites but I almost skip them and groan when they appear. As was posed at the outset: it's probably me...

[The Adventurer]

but you were a kid, and so, had much more time on your hands to read them all.

Maybe I'm unusual in that my adult life isn't an insane whirlwind. But reading 32 pages of comics a week doesn't strike me as a massive time commitment. I can knock that out in 15 mins while sitting on the can in the morning.

One of my favourite ongoing stories in the prog is Kingdom, for instance. Dammit, I LOVE Gene the Hackman. But I wanted his adventures to end two years ago. Seems to be getting dragged out a lot now.

Sorry, but I gotta call fowl on this, Kingdom has been annual or nearly so since its inception. Its made yearly appearances in Early 2007, Early 2008, Late 2009, Early 2011, Late 2014, Early 2016, and Early 2017. So in 10 years its made 7 appearances. Its not getting 'dragged out' its heading toward a natural conclusion. Maybe with the next one (I hope not!) Do I wish it had appeared 10 out of 10 years? Sure. But things happen. And it certainly hasn't diminished the experience.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

I used to pick up the prog every week on my way into work, until last month when I moved house and my LCBS was no longer on my route to work. I am several months behind on the prog, I tend to let a big pile build up before reading through 20+ progs in a weekend.

In the past month I have not picked up the prog. My routine has been upset and sorting out my first (owned) home has taken priority. Not reading it on a weekly basis means I don't miss it a great deal.

FOR NOW

I'm probably going to miss it once I get settled in.

I'd love to hear Commando Forces input on this matter.

[Richard]

Kingdom is an excellent example of how this should be done. There is undoubtedly an over-arching story for the whole series. But each book is a proper story in it's own right, with a specific situation and a conclusion. You know there'll be another book in a year or two, but in the meantime it's had a satisfactory ending.

[The Adventurer]

I don't really think there are any 'book based' series that aren't a series of connected, but, for the most part, standalone stories. Scarlet Traces Cold War being a split book is actually unusual.

Brink - Skeleton Life is a complete story. Deadworld - Cursed is a complete story. Kingdom - As it was in Heaven was a complete story. The Order - Wyrm War was a complete story. Etc....Though part of larger narratives their current books have their own internal rising action and climax.

[maryanddavid]

Personally most of the current output I love, yes Edginton needs to tidy up his output, but its great output!
If I get three strips that I enjoy, then its a good prog, it wavers up and down from that through the year but on the whole for me its above average. 

The only thing that is missing for me, as other have pointed is another anchor character. Since Dante ended and Sin Dex has run it course they are noticeably missing from the prog. It was nearly always Dredd and " " plus three other strips, now its Dredd and sometimes " " or sometimes four other strips.

Brink and the Order are by far the best new strips in years, but as single episodes, these do not have the same weekly impact as an outstanding character like Stront or Slaine on a good day.

For me the only thing to improve 2000AD would be to have Dredd continue as, but with perhaps a little more coordination between writers, the introduction of some new stand-out characters. Where is this generation's Luke Kirby, Shakara, or Zombo?  O, and no rehash of old characters, Ulysses Sweet, I'm looking at you.