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Not sure if it's me or the prog...

Started by Steve Green, 04 July, 2017, 07:04:52 PM

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Greg M.

Quote from: JamesC on 04 August, 2017, 09:30:05 AM
Pat Mills, Dan Abnett and Ian Edington are all great ideas people but they tend to write all of the strips themselves.

Though he's one of the writers whose work I'm not into, it's undeniable that Edginton has brilliant ideas - for me, his talent in this area is greater than his ability to sustain my interest in a longer-term story. The first few episodes of any of his yarns are always the best part, as he introduces what is usually a very original set-up: I could easily picture him coming up with concepts for other writers to explore (and graft more distinctive lead characters onto.)

IndigoPrime

As someone who's been on both sides of this divide, I feel kind of duty bound to point out that writing and editing are very different disciplines. We quite often see 'guest editors' on magazines, but they're not actually editors – they're closer in nature to consultants (when they do the job) and people who breeze by and get a photo on the flannel panel page (when they don't).

Swapping out Matt Smith for a writer might provide an injection of ideas from a very particular, individual viewpoint, but what of the general day-to-day running of the job for the Prog, and the Megazine, and all the other stuff Matt does (including the many years of experience in, well, editing and ensuring strips actually work)? Commissioning? Budgets? Forward planning? Strategy? Editing is, frankly, often a thankless task. It's insanely hard work. It's tough. It's stressful. It's a whole lot more than just stitching together other people's completed work. And given the workload I imagine Matt has, I suspect his time is insanely stretched, as I know for certain it is with every other editor I know in niche fields.

Personally, I think Matt Smith is still doing a very good job. I suspect many people are just getting jaded with something they've been reading for a long time. There is perhaps an argument for more discipline in terms of wrapping up series when writers have several on the go, and a need for a few shorter, punchier strips (something that Grey Area has now somewhat taken up). As for writers going away, it's always been the case; one just has to hope some of them will come and visit now and again.

Magnetica

I don't see the name 2000AD being a problem. For me it represents the whole of the millennium (by which I mean the thousand years starting in the year 2000) and not just one year 17 years ago.

(Sits back and waits for someone to mention Disaster 1990 and Slaine).

JamesC

2000AD is a recognisable brand. It makes total sense to keep the name exactly as it is. This is why we still have 'Carphone Warehouse' on the high street - the brand recognition is more important than whether or not it makes sense.

JLC

Quote from: TordelBack on 04 August, 2017, 06:47:09 AM
Quote from: geronimo on 04 August, 2017, 01:57:02 AM
If I was King Tharg I'd give Garth Ennis (or some such standard of illumini) a call and offer him a chance to edit the prog for a couple of years with Matt as assistant editor.
But another thought is this......
Would the 10 year old me in 1977 have bought a comic entitled '1960AD'?

Geronimo makes his points in a reasonable manner, however much I disagree with them, but I doubt I'd be sticking with Garth Ennis' 3000AD for very long (and I like Ennis). I am however intrigued to know who Anagrammatic Tharg is going to have writing and drawing in his revitalised prog that Matt has, in his supposed burnt-out daze, missed.

If anyone is hoping for the comic to make its living from appealing to 10 year olds again,  I think they're going to be a disappointed.
& therein lies the problem. 2000AD doesn't appear to want to attract a new audience.

Jim_Campbell

#260
Quote from: JLC on 04 August, 2017, 10:35:38 AM
& therein lies the problem. 2000AD doesn't appear to want to attract a new audience.

No, sorry, that's rubbish. Rebellion's stewardship has seen the installation of a dedicated PR team, US-style mini-series of indivual strips, a serious presence at all the major cons here and in the US, actually getting a decent Dredd movie made, loads of home-grown and licensed merchandise, a vigorous reprint strategy, the Hachette deals, and the acquisition of the IPC back catalogue to expand the reprint volumes to a potentially wider audience.

What do you think they should have been doing instead of all that?
Stupidly Busy Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

Pyroxian

Quote from: JamesC on 04 August, 2017, 09:30:05 AM
I think the only thing I would suggest is to get in some 'ideas men' - not necessarily great script writers but people who can come up with interesting ideas to be farmed out to other writers.
Pat Mills, Dan Abnett and Ian Edington are all great ideas people but they tend to write all of the strips themselves.
Maybe we need a new Gerry Finley-Day?

Some shared strips would be quite good - an ongoing storyline, but episodes being created by different writers/artists, and a group overseeing the continuity of the whole thing - that way we could have longer runs of a story.

Magnetica

So what has Matt Smith done? I mean really.

Just of the top of my head here are a things that have happened over the last 17 years or so.

First the Prog and the Meg are still here. They were predicted to die circa the start of this century and here they are still going, still available in WH Smiths.

Dredd 2012 film.

Judge Dredd Mega Collection.

Judge Dredd Mega Collection extension.

2000AD part work collection.

Forth coming Dredd TV series.

Getting John Wagner to write Dredd again.

Retaining top creators despite the pull of America ( yes we have lost some) but Wagner, Grant, Mills, Abnett, Williams, Carroll, Edgington, Flint, Carlos, Willsher, MacNeil, D'Israeli, Cullbard, Higgins, Harrison, Goddard, Richardson, Robinson, Trevallion, Marshall all contribute regularly

Introduce top new stories: Absalom, Brink, Brass Sun, Jaegir, kingmaker, Grey Area, Deadworld.

Thriving range of TPBs and hardbacks.

So replace Matt Smith? Are you kidding?

Smith

Quote from: Pyroxian on 04 August, 2017, 10:48:51 AM
Quote from: JamesC on 04 August, 2017, 09:30:05 AM
I think the only thing I would suggest is to get in some 'ideas men' - not necessarily great script writers but people who can come up with interesting ideas to be farmed out to other writers.
Pat Mills, Dan Abnett and Ian Edington are all great ideas people but they tend to write all of the strips themselves.
Maybe we need a new Gerry Finley-Day?

Some shared strips would be quite good - an ongoing storyline, but episodes being created by different writers/artists, and a group overseeing the continuity of the whole thing - that way we could have longer runs of a story.
More or less,you suggest a group editor(s)?

Jim_Campbell

Quote from: Magnetica on 04 August, 2017, 10:57:14 AM
So replace Matt Smith? Are you kidding?

Yes, but what have the Romans Rebellion really done for us?
Stupidly Busy Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

Jim_Campbell

Quote from: Magnetica on 04 August, 2017, 10:57:14 AM
First the Prog and the Meg are still here. They were predicted to die circa the start of this century and here they are still going, still available in WH Smiths.

I don't think this can be repeated often enough. There was a point in the second half of the 90s when the question was not "What will 2000AD be called in the year 2000?" but "Will there be a 2000AD at all?"
Stupidly Busy Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

JamesC

Quote from: Pyroxian on 04 August, 2017, 10:48:51 AM
Quote from: JamesC on 04 August, 2017, 09:30:05 AM
I think the only thing I would suggest is to get in some 'ideas men' - not necessarily great script writers but people who can come up with interesting ideas to be farmed out to other writers.
Pat Mills, Dan Abnett and Ian Edington are all great ideas people but they tend to write all of the strips themselves.
Maybe we need a new Gerry Finley-Day?

Some shared strips would be quite good - an ongoing storyline, but episodes being created by different writers/artists, and a group overseeing the continuity of the whole thing - that way we could have longer runs of a story.

I'm not sure it would even need to be that formal. Just have some stock strips that any writer can take a crack at.

Frank

Quote from: Pyroxian on 04 August, 2017, 10:48:51 AM
Quote from: JamesC on 04 August, 2017, 09:30:05 AM
I would suggest (getting) in some 'ideas men' - not necessarily great script writers but people who can come up with interesting ideas to be farmed out to other writers.

Some shared strips would be quite good - an ongoing storyline, but episodes being created by different writers/artists, and a group overseeing the continuity of the whole thing

The only examples of editorially mandated strips I can think of are Outlaw and (sort of) Rogue Trooper.

Strontium Dogs and Robohunter went down the route of being passed around like Colin Farrell. The available evidence suggests that, for Tharg, that's not the way to go.

I thought Keith Richardson was everyone's favourite to emerge from the cocoon, come the next shedding? His Megacity Book Club interview suggests he wouldn't be averse to the prospect.



GordonR

No, I'm sure Garth (editorial experience: nil) would jump at the chance to take a huge drop in income to move from New York to Oxford to edit a comic he probably hasn't read regularly in decades.

TordelBack

Quote from: GordonR on 04 August, 2017, 11:33:31 AM
No, I'm sure Garth (editorial experience: nil) would jump at the chance to take a huge drop in income to move from New York to Oxford to edit a comic he probably hasn't read regularly in decades.

But surely the lasting gratitude of 2000AD's loyal readers would be enough...