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Author Topic: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)  (Read 21141 times)

Tiplodocus

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Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
« Reply #180 on: 04 February, 2020, 05:02:10 PM »
"I know writers who use subtext and they are all cowards!"
Be excellent to each other. And party on!

Leigh S

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Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
« Reply #181 on: 04 February, 2020, 05:12:26 PM »
 :D

"I know writers who use subtext and they are all cowards!"

I thought it was another mess to be honest - the disease is here because a humanoid race is testing it on us to find a cure? They do this by infecting some birds and an astronaut and a submarine, or just releasing it into the plasticy bit of the ocean? 

This then makes the birds go crazy, but only in Peru and Madagascar, one by where the alien scientists are, but another not very much so?

Anyone explain how the infection pattern here makes sense?

If it HAD been Autons, it might have been cool! Microplastics in everyone now.... that is a time for the Autons to change their M.O., surely?


Aaron A Aardvark

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Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
« Reply #182 on: 04 February, 2020, 06:58:26 PM »
Yeah. Enjoyed it while I was watching but now... wtf?

Leigh S

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Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
« Reply #183 on: 04 February, 2020, 07:09:52 PM »
yeah, just looking at a review where almost 40 utterly bizarre plot points are described - so almost one a minute! It is like they were going for the record!

The Enigmatic Dr X

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Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
« Reply #184 on: 05 February, 2020, 12:02:42 AM »
When it's not preaching, it's okay.
Lock up your spoons!

shaolin_monkey

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Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
« Reply #185 on: 05 February, 2020, 08:21:31 AM »
I just don't like how when another human being is killed in a horrendous fashion, if there's any trauma amongst the witnesses, it last for about 30 seconds or so, then everyone is back to normal. 

This episode was a case in point, where that woman's friend and companion of five years explodes into dust in front of her after first becoming a plastic virus zombie, yet 30 mins later she's strolling along aa beach happy as you please with her new chums.

Amongst other things, it totally removes any sense of danger or threat from the narrative. 

IndigoPrime

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Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
« Reply #186 on: 05 February, 2020, 08:37:57 AM »
Mrs IP noticed that, along with the series’s tendency for unnecessary sacrifice. It’s all so lazy – much like the writing as a whole.

M.I.K.

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Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
« Reply #187 on: 05 February, 2020, 01:33:43 PM »
I noticed it as well. I also thought Graham's "What you going to call yourselves? 'Three Idiots Roaming'?" comment was more than a bit insensitive. He's only just met them and now he's dishing out jokey insults based upon the name of a vlog one of them did with her friend who's just exploded?

von Boom

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Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
« Reply #188 on: 05 February, 2020, 03:18:29 PM »
I noticed it as well. I also thought Graham's "What you going to call yourselves? 'Three Idiots Roaming'?" comment was more than a bit insensitive. He's only just met them and now he's dishing out jokey insults based upon the name of a vlog one of them did with her friend who's just exploded?
Yeah, they've altered Graham's character quite a bit. He was the highlight of the last series and now they're trying to have Ryan and Yas take a more active role in the stories to replace him, in which they are failing spectacularly. Graham's been relegated to a Cockney anachronism.

Leigh S

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Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
« Reply #189 on: 05 February, 2020, 08:59:26 PM »
The Doctor is looking for Submarine survivors  - and just happens upon an alien outpost.

Ryan is looking for falling birds, and has been given a T shirt to bring one back with.

Yaz and Graham are investigating an energy pattern, but there is coincidentally an astronaut who is being experimented on coincidentally, as his ship was coincidentally knocked out on re-entry by some power surge - given the birds with the infection are in Peru, both Hong Kong and Madagscar seem entirely coincidental.

Luckily the opening spiel tells us this episode is about how we are all connected, so none of that stuff is coincidence - phew!

Dandontdare

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Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
« Reply #190 on: 05 February, 2020, 10:11:01 PM »
... and has been given a T shirt to bring one back with.

Seriously? You want an extra five minutes of backstory to explain why he has a t shirt?

You're just trolling now. If you hate it so much, maybe just watch a DVD instead. Or not, you seem to put a lot of effort into hating it, so you must be getting something from it (cf Star Wars fans).

Dr Who has ALWAYS been shit if you set out to pick holes - plot anomalies are as common as reversed polarities or temporal paradoxes. I defy you to name me one story old or new that couldn't be picked apart with plot-holes, convenient coincidences, illogical actions or contradictory reactions. Dr Who is the ultimate "suspension of disbelief show", none of it really makes sense, but that's never been the point. You just go with the flow, enjoy the witticisms, the character, the monsters and the general action/adventure. And it's awesome.

The last season was crap because it was rather dull and plodding, and this one started poorly I grant you, but kicking off because the narrative device of "collecting one of the clues that the doctor will need later in the plot" was depicted as "he wraps it in a t-shirt" is pedantry of the highest level.


Funt Solo

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Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
« Reply #191 on: 05 February, 2020, 10:31:37 PM »
...pedantry of the highest level.

Actually, the highest level of pedantry (if we're being precise) has only been achieved twice in recorded human history, as decided upon during the tetra-annual Icelandic Pedants' Council held in Mývatn Castle.

"Pedantic, I?" ―Alexei Sayle

Also: Romanes eunt domus.
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Leigh S

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Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
« Reply #192 on: 05 February, 2020, 10:39:05 PM »
Ryan was specifically sent to investigate the dying birds - he says this to Gabriella(?)

So having been sent there on that mission, he has been equipped with nothing to bring back a sample and wraps a dead bird in a T-Shirt?  The Doctor is even surprised he has a sample!

If you have established a character is there to do a certain job, pointing out that he is so ill prepared for that job is not pedantry, as it just draws attention to the fact the writer isn't really thinking through the plot.

The old show having plot holes and coincidences?  Sure, but on the scale you get here?  And as an argument "it has always been shit" seems.... a bit defeatist? Alan Moore didnt look at Superhero comics and go "they have always been shit"  and write more of the same. 

to reduce this to its basics: Aliens seeking cure crash and release Praxeus, which due to radiation (from the crash) is able to make a weird underwater environment that the submarine is somehow caught up in (though if this is the bottom of the ocean, how did any crew get out without being crushed) - some of the alien crew are totally Praxeus zombies, but working against Praxeus to find a cure? Birds infected with Praxeus are able to do the bidding of Praxeus to spread the disease, but are being really cautious about it. Praxeus somehow works out that the scientists have this Madagascar lab, having been off in Peru, despite the crash being in the Indian Ocean? The Praxeus zombies who are looking for a cure set up a base in Hong Kong as well, with an astronaut - this astronauts ship crashed due to an energy surge, and he is infected because.... I give in at this point - sure you could jump through some hoops to join some dots, but not a pretty pattern of perfectly placed hoops, just some mangled, broken not even really established rings of your own creation rather than the writer's..

There is complex plotting and there is complicated plotting and there is complicated to disguise a lack of complexity....

Do I hate Doctor Who? I love it, or rather I love the idea of it - I don't continue to watch it because I hate it, I watch it because sometimes you get a good episode and I can forget the dodgy ones whe you get a "Mummy on the Orient Express" or what have you (whatever happened to Jamie Mathieson  -he wrote a couple of great ones).

I dont watch it ranting at the screen - I am part bemused and part despairing that they have the capapcity to be so much better - but hey, if it's all shit, so why should they even try?

Leigh S

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Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
« Reply #193 on: 05 February, 2020, 10:46:28 PM »

The last season was crap because it was rather dull and plodding, and this one started poorly I grant you, but kicking off because the narrative device of "collecting one of the clues that the doctor will need later in the plot" was depicted as "he wraps it in a t-shirt" is pedantry of the highest level.

I thought the last season was an improvement in many ways (on Moffat and on this new one)- felt more old school Who, for good or ill.  Focussing on the plots rather than some ultimately half baked mystery arc, it actually felt quite fresh even when it didnt land  - which was half the time, but OK - the only one I really disliked was the Dalek one (though missed and never caught up with the spider one as the reviews seemed pretty dire!)

Dandontdare

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Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
« Reply #194 on: 05 February, 2020, 11:31:11 PM »
Ryan was specifically sent to investigate the dying birds - he says this to Gabriella(?)

So having been sent there on that mission, he has been equipped with nothing to bring back a sample and wraps a dead bird in a T-Shirt?  The Doctor is even surprised he has a sample!

If you have established a character is there to do a certain job, pointing out that he is so ill prepared for that job is not pedantry, as it just draws attention to the fact the writer isn't really thinking through the plot.

Since when has the doctor planned or equipped like a Star Trek away mission? "Ooh, that looks weird and dangerous, let's wander in and have a look". She's got multiple odd phenomena to investigate, one of which is weird things happening to birds, so sending him out to just have a shufti is entirely consistent.

The old show having plot holes and coincidences?  Sure, but on the scale you get here?  And as an argument "it has always been shit" seems.... a bit defeatist? Alan Moore didnt look at Superhero comics and go "they have always been shit"  and write more of the same.

Absolutely not. My point is that the ubiquitous plot holes have never stopped it being the greatest TV show ever made, but that you can make any of it sound bad with that level of nitpicking if you really try to.

Do I hate Doctor Who? I love it, or rather I love the idea of it - I don't continue to watch it because I hate it, I watch it because sometimes you get a good episode and I can forget the dodgy ones whe you get a "Mummy on the Orient Express" or what have you (whatever happened to Jamie Mathieson  -he wrote a couple of great ones).

I dont watch it ranting at the screen - I am part bemused and part despairing that they have the capapcity to be so much better - but hey, if it's all shit, so why should they even try?

I worry you may have killed it, and you'll never enjoy it again if you put so much critical thought into it and reverse-engineer every narrative to analyse whether it makes sense. I don't bother, I just let maguffin A lead me to leap of logic B which leads to techno-basil C - classic who formula. I find the less you engage the logic circuits, whilst diverting power to the fun-receptors, (AKA factory settings for a 12 year old) it's still a very enjoyable show.


(  PS- I quite liked the mummy one - apart from a miscast Frank Skinner - funny man, but not the greatest of actors):lol: