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Author Topic: The Boys TV series - Karl Urban cast as Butcher  (Read 11584 times)

Rusty

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Re: The Boys TV series - Karl Urban cast as Butcher
« Reply #105 on: 07 November, 2019, 12:51:54 AM »
Except Hughie is also sexist and homophobic (etc) throughout, just a bit less so, and in a manner where he sometimes realises it. That he sometimes calls Butcher on his shit makes no odds to me when he’s often in the same ballpark, and it’s part of what makes me feel the production is at fault. (The series also has a lot of male gaze attitudes to women that are frankly very problematic. Preacher had similar issues.)

For me, the nadir for Hughie is late on when he boots A-Train’s head off in a rage, and then claims he’s not a monster. Right. Just a bit less of one. Anyway, despite its problems, I enjoyed the TV show. I can’t say the same or 80%+ of the comic run.
I can't recall from memory any instances where Hughie was outwardly sexist in the comic. Just naive at his core, so much so its a crucial element to the plot overall. He is constantly defending the opposite sex, and those of a different sexual orientation throughout. Well, that's what I remember from him anyway. There was the conversation he had with MM about Butcher's prejudices, and how he disliked him for that. MM set him straight by telling Hughie that Butcher doesn't hate anyone, be they black, gay, or whatever. A lot of what he says is for a reason, and that reason is to cause reaction or to manipulate to get what he wants. This is highlighted no more so than the event you mention. It was all set up and planned by Butcher into getting him to do what he wanted, and needed, him to do, and not Hughie himself. In the end, Butcher used that against him because he passed the test.

TordelBack

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Re: The Boys TV series - Karl Urban cast as Butcher
« Reply #106 on: 07 November, 2019, 06:00:14 AM »
As a fan of the comic who hasn't seen the TV seres I hear the objections above and rub my chin vigorously. The comic is a quite deliberately over-the-top festival of gore, unpleasantness, body fluids and sexual orientation and kink played for laughs, satirising (and embracing) superhero comicking and machismo with Mills-grade subtlety. There's no.denying it.- it's consciously and deliberately as unpleasant as possible, presented as fun, in the way of most Ennis. That's part of its appeal, but if and only if you like that sort of thing. 

That it *also* contains a compelling story, interesting-if-broad characters and a sustained critique of massively imbalanced power in society is what makes it a great book, IMHO. But no-one is denying the deliberate ugliness.
« Last Edit: 07 November, 2019, 06:05:26 AM by TordelBack »

IndigoPrime

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Re: The Boys TV series - Karl Urban cast as Butcher
« Reply #107 on: 07 November, 2019, 09:55:44 AM »
Sorry, TordelBack, but I just don’t agree. There’s a thin line between satire and becoming the thing you are satirising. The Boys to me sits in more or less the same space as Big Dave. It’s not shining a light on unpleasantness – it actually is unpleasant, baked into its very core. The best bits are when Hughie fucks off back to Scotland and gets all talky; but even there, Ennis ends up with a horribly male-gaze view of the world, where I just ended up feeling icky regarding quite a lot of what Starlight was saying. Again, this perhaps isn’t surprising given Preacher and the like. But it was rather stark here, given the nature of the comic.

On Rusty’s comment – “[Hughie] is constantly defending the opposite sex, and those of a different sexual orientation throughout.” – that’s to some extent true. He does pull up Butcher a number of times for how he refers to people who are gay. And yet throughout the entire run, he’s responding and saying things in a manner that are basically homophobic as well. He’s just saying “you can’t call them X” and then saying and doing things that aren’t as bad. It’s like the bloke who objects when someone pinches a woman’s bum, but nonetheless gets in their personal space and sticks their arm around them when it’s not wanted. That’s not as bad, sure, but it’s still in the ballpark.

As for the event, Hughie was perhaps manipulated, but the idea he ends up a good guy and not a monster, given everything he does during the run, is to my mind laughable. Incidentally, I’m well aware people will read strips differently; I just found at least half of The Boys abhorrent at a structural level (like, say, Skyfall) rather than a character level, and that was the problem.
« Last Edit: 19 November, 2019, 07:33:44 AM by IndigoPrime »

Link Prime

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Re: The Boys TV series - Karl Urban cast as Butcher
« Reply #108 on: 07 November, 2019, 10:31:28 AM »
I'm asking this without trying to sound like a dick IP, but The Boys is about 70 issues in length - that's a huge reading commitment. Why didn't you bail on it if you found it that offensive / unenjoyable?

I've tapped out after 1 issue / 1 episode of various comics or TV shows with seemingly one tenth of your ire.

IndigoPrime

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Re: The Boys TV series - Karl Urban cast as Butcher
« Reply #109 on: 07 November, 2019, 10:44:47 AM »
Morbid curiosity, mostly, and a stubbornness when it comes to seeing through things I’ve paid for. I also did find various aspects of the premise interesting, and had – despite reservations – enjoyed the TV show. I guess once you’re several volumes in, you’re already invested and may as well see it through. (I read all of IDW’s Dredd series also; that’s another I should have bailed on. Mind you, I didn’t see Blessed Earth through to its conclusion. That really was too much.)

Link Prime

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Re: The Boys TV series - Karl Urban cast as Butcher
« Reply #110 on: 07 November, 2019, 10:49:29 AM »
I read all of IDW’s Dredd series also

The kind of sick masochist that would make the hairs stand up on the back of William Butcher's neck.
I see.

TordelBack

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Re: The Boys TV series - Karl Urban cast as Butcher
« Reply #111 on: 07 November, 2019, 01:18:20 PM »
Sorry, TordelBack, but I just don’t agree. There’s a thin line between satire and becoming the thing you are satirising. The Boys to me sits in more or less the same space as Big Dave. It’s not shining a light on unpleasantness – it actually is unpleasant, baked into its very core.

I'm not arguing that the unpleasantness itself is satire, or justified,  I think it's deliberately presented as fun and only there because Garth - and the reader he's aiming at - enjoy reading it.

If you don't, that's fine, I get it,  I've turned away from plenty of comics for that reason myself.

But there is (for me at least)  a clear line between the comedic dismemberment,  insertion of things up bottoms and spraying about of various viscous fluids, and the way the more serious issues in the book are handled.  Enough of a line for me to enjoy both the grand guignol (perhaps an extension the tradition of the torture, disfigurement and genocide in Nemesis and Dredd?) and a good story about characters I'm engaged with.

It ain't great literature,  but luckily we have great literature for that.
« Last Edit: 07 November, 2019, 01:20:13 PM by TordelBack »

Smith

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Re: The Boys TV series - Karl Urban cast as Butcher
« Reply #112 on: 08 January, 2020, 08:14:49 AM »
Amazon prime now has 2 great shows. Maybe 3 depending on the person.

Proudhuff

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Re: The Boys TV series - Karl Urban cast as Butcher
« Reply #113 on: 08 January, 2020, 02:40:14 PM »
and they are?
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed

Smith

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Re: The Boys TV series - Karl Urban cast as Butcher
« Reply #114 on: 08 January, 2020, 02:54:49 PM »
and they are?
The Boys and Good Omens.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: The Boys TV series - Karl Urban cast as Butcher
« Reply #115 on: 08 January, 2020, 03:30:30 PM »
The Expanse S4 is really good.
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IndigoPrime

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Re: The Boys TV series - Karl Urban cast as Butcher
« Reply #116 on: 08 January, 2020, 03:46:24 PM »
We were about to start that, watched the ‘previously’, and then quickly realised we’d only seen S01 and 02. Fortunately, S03 is also really good.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: The Boys TV series - Karl Urban cast as Butcher
« Reply #117 on: 08 January, 2020, 03:49:01 PM »
Fortunately, S03 is also really good.

Yup.
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Professor Bear

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Re: The Boys TV series - Karl Urban cast as Butcher
« Reply #118 on: 08 January, 2020, 04:19:52 PM »
Amazon also make The Marvelous Miss Maisel, which is great as long as you don't look up the politics of its barmy creator - though I imagine if you were worried about politics you wouldn't be using Amazon in the first place.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: The Boys TV series - Karl Urban cast as Butcher
« Reply #119 on: 08 January, 2020, 04:22:42 PM »
I imagine if you were worried about politics you wouldn't be using Amazon in the first place.

Every time I watch something on Amazon, I burn a book. In your face, Bezos!
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