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Author Topic: How old is Johnny Alpha?  (Read 2383 times)

Dandontdare

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Re: How old is Johnny Alpha?
« Reply #75 on: 14 September, 2018, 10:48:40 pm »
For me, when Wulf died it was the end of an era, but the story went on. Then Johnny died - I was swept up, thrilled, dismayed and bereft, but I loved every minute of it - and as much as I love Carlos, I thought Harrison and MacNeil did an amazing job. I had zero complaints, it was one of the best strips running at that time.

There was loads of potential for great stories with the other dogs, but they just felt like generic sc-ifi stories cobbled onto a continuity, they never captured that sergio leone/clint eastwood western feel that classic SD had.

SIP

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Re: How old is Johnny Alpha?
« Reply #76 on: 14 September, 2018, 11:34:17 pm »
I've been fully on board with the revisiting and retconning of the conclusion to the Final Solution. Johnny has always been a favourite 2000ad character of mine and I started to drift away from 2000ad when he died......I really didn't like Feral. It was great to ge the flashback stories and even better when the new Strontium Dog stories began to appear.
 
With the introduction of Wulf's son I guess I've lost hope on a "Johnny saving Wulf from his demise at the hands of Bubba" time travel storyline. Any Johnny in the prog is always a plus for me and instantly becomes my go-to first story to read.

Hope Carlos is back up to 100% and drawing more Strontium Dog soon. I always miss both the character and his artist creator when they are absent from the prog.
« Last Edit: 14 September, 2018, 11:38:30 pm by SIP »

Richard

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Re: How old is Johnny Alpha?
« Reply #77 on: 15 September, 2018, 04:15:05 pm »
Retconning the Final Solution is one thing; saving Wulf from Max Bubba would totally ruin two of the best stories of the classic series: Max Bubba and Rage. Even if such a story was written by Wagner himself, and even if it was a good tale when judged solely on its own merits, I would still ignore it and prefer to think of the original stories as "canon." I probably wouldn't even read it.

Wulf was a popular character, I get that, but there's not much emotional impact in killing off an unpopular character is there? It's precisely because Wulf is missed that the story of his death was so tragic, and is still so memorable when some (not many) other stories in the same series are not. It would be a terrible idea to pretend that didn't happen.

He came back in the flashback story Roadhouse. Leave him there.

TordelBack

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Re: How old is Johnny Alpha?
« Reply #78 on: 15 September, 2018, 04:33:13 pm »
Spot on there,  Richard.  Wulf was also back on board for The Sad Case, The Glum Affair,  Traitor to His Kind (what cheery titles!), Headly Foot Job and Shaggy Dog Story (and possibly more! ), so we haven't exactly been starved of the big guy. In fact,  many of those flashback-era tales were better than the post-Wulf pre-Final Solution stories, rather proving the point.

SIP

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Re: How old is Johnny Alpha?
« Reply #79 on: 15 September, 2018, 05:27:33 pm »
So, just to clarify.....it's absolutely fine to completely retcon the emotional and shocking end of the strips lead main character, a stand out moment in 2000ad's history for many, but to do that for his sidekick would simply be unacceptable?  Where is the line is drawn?

If you do it right, it's all fine by me.

This is a strip that has made extensive use of time travel.....seems odd to me that Alpha hasn't done it by now, dubious or not.
« Last Edit: 15 September, 2018, 05:33:07 pm by SIP »

Frank

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Re: How old is Johnny Alpha?
« Reply #80 on: 15 September, 2018, 05:49:09 pm »
So, just to clarify.....it's absolutely fine to completely retcon the emotional and shocking end of the strips lead main character(?)

A quick skim of the thread shows only The Divine Miss Greg M is arguing the resurrection was a good thing.



Greg M.

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Re: How old is Johnny Alpha?
« Reply #81 on: 15 September, 2018, 06:17:39 pm »
I support the resurrection because it allowed the series to move forward. I'm lukewarm on the actual mechanics of it - wouldn't have bothered me if the series had just continued with a different lead or ensemble cast - but it's proved worthwhile overall.

Richard

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Re: How old is Johnny Alpha?
« Reply #82 on: 15 September, 2018, 06:45:48 pm »
For me the difference is that Max Bubba and Rage are remembered fondly, whereas The Final Solution isn't really. I have no problem with the latter story turning out to be Feral's version of what happened, because it's a pretty weak story. But if you do the same thing to the death of Wulf, then you miss out on "Because I hate you" and all sorts of other good bits.

Who is the lead character and who is the sidekick is not important to me.

Greg M.

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Re: How old is Johnny Alpha?
« Reply #83 on: 15 September, 2018, 06:53:01 pm »
I find Wulf more interesting dead, if I'm honest. As Richard says, his demise gave us Rage, which is probably the best S/D story. I prefer the idea of Johnny rotating his partners, as it were - Middenface is my preferred option anyway.

JOE SOAP

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Re: How old is Johnny Alpha?
« Reply #84 on: 15 September, 2018, 07:18:53 pm »
I was perfectly happy with the apocryphal angle taken with the flashback stories, but if a stricter continuity and character evolution is considered to be what matters, then it's not wise to negate every significant dramatic development that happened in Johnny's life – especially now that Wulf's son is part of Johnny's future story plus it's a far more interesting catalyst for new stories with Johnny as a father figure.

It's a matter of character priority: without Johnny there's simply no story to speak of. That's not the case with Wulf, so resurrecting him can't be considered an equivalent with Johnny's Lazarus moment.
« Last Edit: 15 September, 2018, 07:24:33 pm by JOE SOAP »

Frank

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Re: How old is Johnny Alpha?
« Reply #85 on: 15 September, 2018, 07:47:42 pm »
Middenface is my preferred option

Interesting that you take what Alan Partridge describes as the Scottish position. I loved the jouissance of eighties McNulty, but he's a shadow of his former self - and I don't mean the missing arm.

I enjoyed The Final Solution in every regard other than scheduling, but that doesn't mean I think Wagner & Ezquerra should never have been able to create another story featuring Alpha.*


* I'd just rather they'd brass-necked it and embraced the artificiality of the medium and their actions, rather than any dopey in-story explanation. A literal wizard did it! Why not just rub whisky on his beak, for fuck's sake ... although, that's still a less embarrassing idea than time travel or DNA.

Greg M.

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Re: How old is Johnny Alpha?
« Reply #86 on: 15 September, 2018, 07:59:25 pm »
Interested to know if you enjoyed the last couple of Bad Company stories, Frank, since Milligan pretty much takes your preferred approach to the idea of resurrecting characters.

Frank

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Re: How old is Johnny Alpha?
« Reply #87 on: 15 September, 2018, 08:05:42 pm »
Interested to know if you enjoyed the last couple of Bad Company stories, Frank, since Milligan pretty much takes your preferred approach to the idea of resurrecting characters.

No, but that's definitely not why I don't enjoy those stories. Like you, I can separate the mechanics from the story they facilitate.



SIP

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Re: How old is Johnny Alpha?
« Reply #88 on: 15 September, 2018, 08:07:04 pm »
Max Bubba and Rage were 30 years ago now. The stories stand irrespective of what happens now.

I have previously been comprehensively schooled by members of the board that new star wars films, for example, have not impacted on my continued enjoyment the originals, so surely a new development in Strontium Dog in the 21st century does not retrospectively ruin or detract from a story from several decades past?

Anyway, I have enjoyed the new storylines and Johnny's return. Just occurs to me that in a story where time travel has featured prominently, that our main character may at least contemplate abusing the power to save the life of the most significant person in his life.
« Last Edit: 15 September, 2018, 08:09:48 pm by SIP »

SIP

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Re: How old is Johnny Alpha?
« Reply #89 on: 15 September, 2018, 08:20:22 pm »
The real problem is that once you put the ability to time travel into a story, it causes huge problems with the "finality" of anything. Most likely why it's played down in Strontium Dog post the 1980's.

Apologies for the double post, I couldn't modify the previous one!