Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 

Author Topic: Let's bring Ian Gibson back in the from the cold.  (Read 24553 times)

BPP

  • Member
  • Posting Machine
  • ***
  • Posts: 1531
    • View Profile
    • Futureshock'd: At least the pictures are nice.
Re: Let's bring Ian Gibson back in the from the cold.
« Reply #45 on: 24 September, 2018, 09:51:08 am »
Near as I can tell, the idea is that plenty of women like being portrayed as sex objects, as evidenced by there being some women who work in comics. Not portraying women in this way is sexist, slavishly following cultural norms.  Creators can do what they want with their creations, even if its entirely counter to the original concept and the view s of co-creators.  And if you don't like women being set free in this way, that's just like the people who think women shouldn't be involved in DrWho, and you just should buy the art, just like they shouldn't watch the show. Also, you probably think that all Ian Gibson art should be pulped. Is that what you want? Well? Is it?!

Far as I can tell you seem to think there is one way for all women to view and express their sexuality and everything else is pandering to the patriarchy, well? Is it?
If I'd known it was harmless I would have killed it myself.

http://futureshockd.wordpress.com/

http://twitter.com/#!/FutureShockd

Link Prime

  • Member
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 4565
    • View Profile
Re: Let's bring Ian Gibson back in the from the cold.
« Reply #46 on: 24 September, 2018, 10:16:54 am »
"Ask me about my Halo-Tits agenda"

Final comment on this thread for me- irregardless of all other perceived issues / absolute nonsense (pick your preference), I'd genuinely love to see the venerable Gibson Droid return to 2000AD.

Maybe even another successful Dredd collaboration with the acclaimed Rennie Droid.


Modern Panther

  • Member
  • Prog Stacking Droid
  • ***
  • Posts: 631
    • View Profile
    • modern panther.wordpress.com
Re: Let's bring Ian Gibson back in the from the cold.
« Reply #47 on: 24 September, 2018, 10:32:09 am »
Quote
Far as I can tell you seem to think there is one way for all women to view and express their sexuality and everything else is pandering to the patriarchy, well? Is it?

I think that women can express their sexuality and way they want. I also think that a bloke drawing a picture of a woman for an audience of blokes is not a woman expressing her sexuality. To pretend that its somehow liberating for a male creator in a male dominated industry to take a feminist character and draw her in her pants is an gross simplification. But I'm male, so my views are pretty much irrelevant. As I've said, it would be interesting to hear the views of female boarders...unless, of course, their are hardly any, possibly because they're not drawn to this sort of representation

I was also making fun of the several false dichotomies you introduced into the argument.

TordelBack

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 24772
  • Thunder Chops is dragged off, gnashing...
    • View Profile
Re: Let's bring Ian Gibson back in the from the cold.
« Reply #48 on: 24 September, 2018, 10:39:52 am »
Far as I can tell you seem to think there is one way for all women to view and express their sexuality and everything else is pandering to the patriarchy, well? Is it?

Which woman is expressing her sexuality here?  Isn't Halo a fictional character created by two blokes, and her (Rebellion-owned) name was used to sell prints?

IMHO here have been very few images in 2000AD more genuinely sexy than that panel of Luiz Cannibal nuzzling Halo's bare shoulders, so I'm definitely not arguing that the character herself doesn't have a sexual identity. But let's be honest: that print had nothing to do with Halo.

BPP

  • Member
  • Posting Machine
  • ***
  • Posts: 1531
    • View Profile
    • Futureshock'd: At least the pictures are nice.
Re: Let's bring Ian Gibson back in the from the cold.
« Reply #49 on: 24 September, 2018, 10:49:44 am »
Quote
Far as I can tell you seem to think there is one way for all women to view and express their sexuality and everything else is pandering to the patriarchy, well? Is it?

I think that women can express their sexuality and way they want. I also think that a bloke drawing a picture of a woman for an audience of blokes is not a woman expressing her sexuality. To pretend that its somehow liberating for a male creator in a male dominated industry to take a feminist character and draw her in her pants is an gross simplification. But I'm male, so my views are pretty much irrelevant. As I've said, it would be interesting to hear the views of female boarders...unless, of course, their are hardly any, possibly because they're not drawn to this sort of representation

I was also making fun of the several false dichotomies you introduced into the argument.

Likewise my reply to your own sweeping generalisations and reductive totalising. No surprise you missed it tho.

Oh well, count me out of the faux morale outrage brigade and say that whatever a creator wants to do with their work is up to them and not me. Toodle pip.
If I'd known it was harmless I would have killed it myself.

http://futureshockd.wordpress.com/

http://twitter.com/#!/FutureShockd

Modern Panther

  • Member
  • Prog Stacking Droid
  • ***
  • Posts: 631
    • View Profile
    • modern panther.wordpress.com
Re: Let's bring Ian Gibson back in the from the cold.
« Reply #50 on: 24 September, 2018, 11:03:03 am »
No. I got it.

sheridan

  • Member
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 3669
    • View Profile
    • Wilde Wood
Re: Let's bring Ian Gibson back in the from the cold.
« Reply #51 on: 24 September, 2018, 11:08:21 am »
Whose creative opinion seems more valid here: the guy who thought up the character and her world, or the guy who drew her after someone else had thought her up?

Both equally. It’s not antithetical for Gibson to do one thing with halo and Moore another.

Unless you’re advocating returning to the idea of the artists simply being guns for hire and the writer as the sole creator. Which is a whole different kettle of fish.


Occasionally the artist is a hired gun for hire, just drawing what somebody else has written and little more.  Very rarely the opposite is true (most recently I'm thinking of Michael Carroll writing new words for John Higgins' Razorjack - going back a bit Simon Harrison create Revere and got John Smith to turn it into a story, though I don't know how much of each went in to the final product). 


For Halo, though, right from the beginning the two of them create Halo and her world - you'd actually have to have been there in the studios, pubs, telephone conversations and IPC offices (or wherever they hammered out the details) to truly know who created what.  I wouldn't place either of them above the other as co-creator status, except maybe for Book II, which Gibson is on record as saying was partially dialled-in.

Richard

  • Member
  • Posting Machine
  • ***
  • Posts: 1990
    • View Profile
Re: Let's bring Ian Gibson back in the from the cold.
« Reply #52 on: 24 September, 2018, 03:56:29 pm »
I agree with Sheridan; the issue isn't whether one co-creator's views should take precedence over the other's, or whether artists should always defer to writers, or whose contribution was more important or creative. After all, if Alan Moore had written a misogynist prose story about Halo and Gibson had denounced it, I'd be on Gibson's side in that one. But it was the other way round.

I'm happy to agree that artist and writer co-creators have an equal right to have a say in what happens to their characters. But it doesn't follow that they both must be right, or even that their views are equally valid. For me, this controversy turns on two issues (not necessarily in any order of importance):

1) Rebellion owns Halo Jones. I don't know what the law or what Gibson's contract say about any of this, but legal niceties aside, I think it's a little bit off to unilaterally publish a picture of someone's intellectual property (whatever the circumstances of why they own it and not you) -- expressly labelled as that character -- which looks nothing like how they were depicted throughout the entire body of work for which they are famous (especially given point 2).

2) Halo Jones is a rare example, especially for the 1980s, of a female character in a comic (or any other SF medium) who was portrayed as a strong, resourceful etc heroine without also having to get her kit off. Gratuitous nudity is always a cheap trick, and I'm not being prudish here -- I love nudity, but there's a time and a place for it: porn is fine with me, but Halo with her tits out is a different kettle of fish -- I feel like it undermines the integrity of the character or the work she appeared in. Does that make any sense? Tordelback made a good point about this: Halo isn't asexual, she had a boyfriend in Book Three, but that was shown much more subtly and maturely than the infantile, in-your-face image that looks like something from Zoo or Nuts (if they did paintings instead of photos). This picture is nothing like that, it's completely unlike all previous depictions of the character, and for no good reason at all. I won't presume to speak for female readers, but I think it was a huge error.

I'd have let Gibson off if he'd apologised, if it was just a momentary lapse of judgement, and I'd have forgotten all about it. But he's dug himself in and joined battle, with no recognition of the other point of view and no leg to stand on, so if I want to see his work again I'll re-read Verdus.

Richard

  • Member
  • Posting Machine
  • ***
  • Posts: 1990
    • View Profile
Re: Let's bring Ian Gibson back in the from the cold.
« Reply #53 on: 24 September, 2018, 04:21:10 pm »
P. S.: I meant to say: I'm not offended by it, I just massively disagree with it.

M.I.K.

  • Member
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 3172
    • View Profile
    • Mal Comix
Re: Let's bring Ian Gibson back in the from the cold.
« Reply #54 on: 24 September, 2018, 05:38:00 pm »
^What he said.^

Frank

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 7779
    • View Profile
Re: Let's bring Ian Gibson back in the from the cold.
« Reply #55 on: 24 September, 2018, 07:04:56 pm »
I thought Ian Gibson's interview in today's Megazine 400 was excellent.

Clearly if his health allows, the man is willing to work for 2000ad again so let's make it happen.

That is all.

Nobody is seriously suggesting a day-one living legend of 2000ad should be ostracised over a single tacky image*, so I interpret the preceding four pages of tangential rhubarb as a collective effort to keep Matty's original, well-intentioned suggestion in the public eye.

I love Ian Gibson's work too, Matty. I doubt his personal problems would allow him to create new strip art, but if Tharg wanted to give Gibson an open-ended commission for generic covers** that could be completed as and when his difficulties allow, I'd be delighted.


* If Tharg chooses not to work with Gibson because of the way he exited Samantha Slade, that's a different matter and entirely up to him. Difficult not to reassess that exit in the light of his subsequent problems, though, regardless of the reasons Gibson insists were behind his actions.

** As I presume he did with Cliff Robinson. 

broodblik

  • Member
  • Sentient Tea Bot
  • **
  • Posts: 421
    • View Profile
Re: Let's bring Ian Gibson back in the from the cold.
« Reply #56 on: 24 September, 2018, 08:02:10 pm »
Sometimes it is best to forgive and to forget. I will love to see his work in the prog again.

I was re-reading Halo Jones (the colored versions) and this just made me more want to see him return. I would really like if we can have more Halo Jones but that is wishful thinking from my side.

wedgeski

  • Member
  • Page Numbering Droid
  • **
  • Posts: 192
    • View Profile
Re: Let's bring Ian Gibson back in the from the cold.
« Reply #57 on: 25 September, 2018, 09:17:06 am »
Nobody is seriously suggesting a day-one living legend of 2000ad should be ostracised over a single tacky image*, so I interpret the preceding four pages of tangential rhubarb as a collective effort to keep Matty's original, well-intentioned suggestion in the public eye.
Quite so.

robert_ellis

  • Member
  • Prog Stacking Droid
  • ***
  • Posts: 703
    • View Profile
Re: Let's bring Ian Gibson back in the from the cold.
« Reply #58 on: 27 September, 2018, 11:30:47 am »
I'd love to see Ian Gibson do covers for further collected reprints & maybe a few images of Halo's possible futures. He's a definitive 2000ad artist and a singular talent.

matty_ae

  • Member
  • Prog Stacking Droid
  • ***
  • Posts: 619
  • I don't know as much as you other fans.
    • View Profile
    • Reprint this Dan Dare
Re: Let's bring Ian Gibson back in the from the cold.
« Reply #59 on: 27 September, 2018, 02:48:52 pm »
I agree Frank

I was just thinking that a lot of Meg interviews in the past seem to lead to either cover work or a couple of one-offs. Certainly this has proved the case for Ian Kennedy, Gerry Finley-Day etc.

As the Meg is edited by Matt Smith I thought the door for some sort of return, might have opened and I thought a ground swell of fan love for Ian Gibson might be the push needed to open it wider.

I hope that's still the case.


I thought Ian Gibson's interview in today's Megazine 400 was excellent.

Clearly if his health allows, the man is willing to work for 2000ad again so let's make it happen.

That is all.

Nobody is seriously suggesting a day-one living legend of 2000ad should be ostracised over a single tacky image*, so I interpret the preceding four pages of tangential rhubarb as a collective effort to keep Matty's original, well-intentioned suggestion in the public eye.

I love Ian Gibson's work too, Matty. I doubt his personal problems would allow him to create new strip art, but if Tharg wanted to give Gibson an open-ended commission for generic covers** that could be completed as and when his difficulties allow, I'd be delighted.


* If Tharg chooses not to work with Gibson because of the way he exited Samantha Slade, that's a different matter and entirely up to him. Difficult not to reassess that exit in the light of his subsequent problems, though, regardless of the reasons Gibson insists were behind his actions.

** As I presume he did with Cliff Robinson.