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Author Topic: Pat Mills and 2000 AD royalties  (Read 2460 times)

Frank

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Re: Pat Mills and 2000 AD royalties
« Reply #30 on: 09 May, 2019, 09:34:43 pm »
Would the 2000AD brand have the weight it does if it had been entirely creator-owned from day one?

Creator ownership was baked into the DNA of 2000ad from day one. The promise of owning all rights to their work was how IPC scammed John Wagner and Carlos Ezquerra* into creating the company's most profitable character.

The only reason any 2000ad creator is paid royalties is because, one day in 1987, John Wagner marched into John Davidge's office, dumped a ton of reprints on the desk, and pointed out that he'd made 'not one fucking penny' from them.

A creator made a fuss, then a system that was common across the industry, and had endured for decades, changed forever.


* ... and Pat Mills into creating the comic itself.

Steve Green

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Re: Pat Mills and 2000 AD royalties
« Reply #31 on: 09 May, 2019, 09:47:00 pm »
Also some rights on Terrameks (or at least IPC only had first publishing rights) - there was another thing somewhere which seemed to imply that Strontium Dog was initially going to be creator owned, or appeared as such in Starlord before management got wind of it.

Frank

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Re: Pat Mills and 2000 AD royalties
« Reply #32 on: 09 May, 2019, 09:59:32 pm »
... one day in 1987

1989, idiot.



athorist

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Re: Pat Mills and 2000 AD royalties
« Reply #33 on: 13 May, 2019, 03:21:10 pm »
I'm going to an event this month and Simon Bisley's going to be there. Would it be a bad idea

a) to get him to sign my UC copy of The Horned God
b) to give him the copy with the spine misprint, at least he could get some money out of it

(In the section he's in, autographs are free, but it says you might be charged if you bring something to sign)

I'm thinking I'm not going to do b), mainly because it means bringing two copies of a book I've already read, and possibly giving away the wrong one
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Robes

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Re: Pat Mills and 2000 AD royalties
« Reply #34 on: 29 May, 2019, 10:22:55 am »
Is it £129 for the Horned God only?  This takes into account the 80% discount on that issue?  Because then I'm assuming they are going to earn 3000 - 4000 for the entire slain run, which doesn't seem bad to me considering the age of the comic.  Are my sums correct?

Frank

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Re: Pat Mills and 2000 AD royalties
« Reply #35 on: 29 May, 2019, 10:33:39 am »
Is it £129 for the Horned God only?  This takes into account the 80% discount on that issue?  Because then I'm assuming they are going to earn 3000 - 4000 for the entire Slain run

Simon Bisley won't. 

Hachette's thesis is that the discount on the first issue means it sells much more than the regularly priced volumes, so it's impossible to extrapolate earnings on other books from reported royalties on this one.



The Amstor Computer

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Re: Pat Mills and 2000 AD royalties
« Reply #36 on: 29 May, 2019, 01:44:36 pm »
Simon Bisley won't. 

Hachette's thesis is that the discount on the first issue means it sells much more than the regularly priced volumes, so it's impossible to extrapolate earnings on other books from reported royalties on this one.

...though it is worth pointing out that Pat himself noted on the blog post that sparked all of this that the royalty payment he received for the Hachette release of Nemesis the Warlock was pretty much identical to the one he received for the Ultimate Collection reprint of The Horned God. I'm guessing here that that was for Volume 1 or 2, as the third volume was released later in 2018. It may be that the figures have declined as the Ultimate Collection has rolled on since, but I'd imagine that there is a core of subscribers who will commit early and stay committed to the end of the series so I wouldn't be surprised if sales were kinda flat after a certain point (and royalties for sole writer/artist staying similarly flat). 

Not enough to extrapolate accurately from, but with approx. 20 volumes in the series with Pat as sole writer it might give some indication of potential royalties over the whole Collection.

The question of whether the royalty rate Pat describes is fair aside for a moment, to an outsider it seems like the Hachette series start with a high-profile tale to "kickstart" things in the hope that high initial sales will lead to high (or at least sustainable) retention of subscribers which should ultimately benefit subsequent releases, the other authors and artists involved and Hachette/Rebellion. With around 20 releases to his name over the whole series, Pat seems to be the writer in a position to benefit the most from higher initial sales and a good retention rate - just as I would expect John Wagner would have stood to see the benefit of good initial sales on the Mega Collection, even if America led the series with a far lower rate.

Frank

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Re: Pat Mills and 2000 AD royalties
« Reply #37 on: 29 May, 2019, 01:56:47 pm »
... it seems like the Hachette series start with a high-profile tale to "kickstart" things in the hope that high initial sales will lead to high (or at least sustainable) retention of subscribers ...

So let Hachette bear the cost of their own strategy, rather than expecting creators to subsidise their hunch.



Karl Stephan

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Re: Pat Mills and 2000 AD royalties
« Reply #38 on: 06 August, 2019, 11:07:30 pm »
All comics should be creator-owned.
At which point, why will publishers be willing to take a risk on, well, basically anything?

Do you need a publisher in this day and age? If you're talented and willing to do the promotional legwork yourself (this is half the job!) you can make much more than you would have through a publisher, you keep all your rights and you get to develop your own IP. Granted, proper distribution networks still need to be established, but once that happens I think soon most if not all small to medium comic IP's will be self-published.


Jim_Campbell

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Re: Pat Mills and 2000 AD royalties
« Reply #39 on: 06 August, 2019, 11:18:46 pm »
Do you need a publisher in this day and age? If you're talented and willing to do the promotional legwork yourself (this is half the job!) you can make much more than you would have through a publisher, you keep all your rights and you get to develop your own IP. Granted, proper distribution networks still need to be established, but once that happens I think soon most if not all small to medium comic IP's will be self-published.

The sheer quantity of wrongness contained in one short post actually makes my head hurt.
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Karl Stephan

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Re: Pat Mills and 2000 AD royalties
« Reply #40 on: 06 August, 2019, 11:21:58 pm »
The sheer quantity of wrongness contained in one short post actually makes my head hurt.

What's wrong Jim?

Dandontdare

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Re: Pat Mills and 2000 AD royalties
« Reply #41 on: 06 August, 2019, 11:41:11 pm »
That post had a Jim-targetted missile attached as soon as it was posted - 11 minutes is not unsurprising.  :lol:

Stand by for a learning in the economics of comics publishing (if he can be arsed)

IndigoPrime

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Re: Pat Mills and 2000 AD royalties
« Reply #42 on: 07 August, 2019, 10:48:57 am »
It is feasible to self-publish, if you’re basically a hobbyist not really looking to make money (and with a goal of possibly breaking even), have an existing following that enables you to take that route, or are tremendously fortunate. But be mindful in comics that even The Phoenix still has really shitty distribution, despite being much-loved and heading towards its 400th issue. Blocks magazine (the Lego one) is finally creeping into WHSmith nationwide. It’s been running for about five years now, and has staff.

Every creative medium is the same. With my writing, I sign away my rights, because otherwise I’d get paid fuck-all. With music, I’ve not done that (not ever had the opportunity) and have literally sold several albums in my time. I probably generated enough income from those to pay for a family meal out at Nandos. Although if you factor in the money I spent on Soundcloud Pro alone, I imagine I’m more in the red than the black.

Interestingly, this argument is circulation again in the games industry. The general consensus is that the indie market has gone to complete shit, and there’s just too much content out there for anyone to have a hope of breaking through. The result is that the savvier indies are again dealing with publishers, although that doesn’t necessarily mean giving up all creative control and rights, of course.

Karl Stephan

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Re: Pat Mills and 2000 AD royalties
« Reply #43 on: 07 August, 2019, 11:27:39 am »
When I say, self publish, I mean crowd funding to a select number of backers and then distributing via amazon and comicsology. You definitely need a strong following and there are a number of established (and not so established) professionals who have done this to great success.

IndigoPrime

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Re: Pat Mills and 2000 AD royalties
« Reply #44 on: 07 August, 2019, 03:03:08 pm »
Well, quite, but that means putting in a ton of legwork, and probably having an existing following you can leverage, along with being fortunate, and knowing how to successfully run a crowdfunding campaign. And when you’re done, you can do it all again, possibly to greater success, but more likely to diminishing returns. If you’ve a day job, good luck getting that going. It’s insanely tough.

(As for distribution platforms, that’s another can of worms, given how much of a percentage they’re going to want. Physical media’s even more hairy – I worked with one publisher who went under specifically due to Amazon.)