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Author Topic: Prog 2170 - Regened (2020)  (Read 3826 times)

TordelBack

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Re: Prog 2170 - Regened (2020)
« Reply #30 on: 27 February, 2020, 08:00:58 PM »
*Let's not think about the appalling caustic burns Finder must have sustained wading about in liquid concrete in a pair of tights.
Mm. I mentioned that earlier.

So you did! Apologies, it's my custom not to read the review threads until I've set my own thoughts down - usual exception bring the post directly above!

norton canes

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Re: Prog 2170 - Regened (2020)
« Reply #31 on: 28 February, 2020, 10:53:32 AM »
Also, I know it's picky, but is concrete generally poured in measures that deep?

TordelBack

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Re: Prog 2170 - Regened (2020)
« Reply #32 on: 28 February, 2020, 11:06:06 AM »
Short answer: sometimes. But never without a mountain of re-bar gridding. 

Elsewhere in the Prog, I enjoyed the Gronk story, script and art both.

The Dredd... I dunno, Chekov's Goggles annoyed me a bit, and the general lack of characterisation for anyone except the useless Tek, but the story waa fine and I liked the uniform tweaks and the lively art quite a bit. I'm not really sure why this needed to be a Cadet Dredd story, though. Would adult Dredd have done any different?

Colin YNWA

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Re: Prog 2170 - Regened (2020)
« Reply #33 on: 28 February, 2020, 12:59:44 PM »
Cadet Dredd works well (from the vast number we have!) when it is smarter in how it plays off the tension between Rico and Dredd. Well in terms of being its own strip rather than just Dredd with a smaller Joe in a white helmet.

Make it like Green's Grudge War!

Mikey

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Re: Prog 2170 - Regened (2020)
« Reply #34 on: 28 February, 2020, 01:42:50 PM »
Howdy!

Having found myself actually up to date with the prog for the first time in ages, thought it was about time to tell you what I thought. You lucky few.

Have to say the cover didn't really work for me - think I'd personally liked to have seen a MC1 background.

Cadet Dredd was grand, a decent one and done with great art. And as far as the crime goggles, I read it as a foreshadowing of Dredd's bionic peepers, especially with Cadet Joe expressing cynicism (natch) about such a crazy notion catching on.

Gronk was good fun but felt a bit long, and Rogue was another good one off not a million clicks off what you'd find in the prog in the eighties, apart from (to my mind) in the 80s Nu Earth didn't feel so clean. But I really like the art so don't get me wrong, I'd happily see more of this.

My favourite strip however was Finder & Keeper. Thought this was just great, I was actually fully engaged in what was going on and it just hit the mark perfectly.

More generally, though I agree that some of the art in the prog when we were younglings was perhaps a bit more gritty at times, it was also competing with a lot of other titles for attention. The more clean style of a lot of the art in this issue perhaps would appeal to would be younger readers in the same way now? I've no idea what it's up against, but there's no way it's 'inferior' to other strip work seen in the prog.

Keep it up Joko Tharg, your doing a good job.
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IndigoPrime

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Re: Prog 2170 - Regened (2020)
« Reply #35 on: 28 February, 2020, 02:30:59 PM »
It’s odd to see so many gripes about the nature of the art, given that art has always been about prevailing trends. During the late 1970s and early 1980s, 2000 AD was printed in terrible paper, and had hand-inked black-and-white art. Clean lines are more common across the board now, whether reading the latest larks in The Phoenix, or the most terrifying horrors Image can hurl into your brain.

Richard

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Re: Prog 2170 - Regened (2020)
« Reply #36 on: 28 February, 2020, 05:15:51 PM »
I have no problem with clean lines. That doesn't mean everything should look like a cartoon.

Magnetica

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Re: Prog 2170 - Regened (2020)
« Reply #37 on: 28 February, 2020, 06:32:15 PM »
I have no problem with clean lines. That doesn't mean everything should look like a cartoon.

I agree.

Even in the newspaper era 2000AD featured art with very clean lines from the likes of Bolland and Kev O’Neill.

DrJomster

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Re: Prog 2170 - Regened (2020)
« Reply #38 on: 28 February, 2020, 11:36:51 PM »
This worked well for me. Some great art, particularly on Finder & Keeper. From the various posts above, the occasional all ages prog slipped into the main prog seems to be the way to go to explore building up to The Next Stage.... but what does that stage look like? A monthly all ages? A weekly? I hope this goes well and eventually ends in some sort of regular all ages prog, alongside the mighty grownup Tooth.

Great work, droids!
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TordelBack

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Re: Prog 2170 - Regened (2020)
« Reply #39 on: 29 February, 2020, 09:03:34 AM »
I have no problem with clean lines. That doesn't mean everything should look like a cartoon.

I think the quality of the art in this issue is uniformly great, my issue is also with the overall style, which feels like it's trying too hard to be 'for kids': too soft, too cheery. In my head an all-ages Prog dispenses with the blood-and-boobs and long-running plots and offers fresh punchy stories and modernised takes on characters. I don't know why it also has to dispense with a more challenging look.

An example is the Rogue Trooper. This is actually one of the cleverest Rogue stories in some time: it takes an established bit of GFD Rogue lore, the early experimental generation of GIs, and expands it into the team dynamic of Rogue and his buddies, throws in a bit of Venus Bluegenes and adds a happy ending.  It's a solid reworking and something new and a lot less bleak: it fits the brief well, and has far more substance than most Rogue one-offs.

Artwise I like the uniform tweaks (apart from Gunnar), the all-important Nort hardware is impressive, character designs are Ewins-strong and the storytelling is fast and clear. But somehow there's still an overall lool of this being for kids, rather than simply being a neat and accessible Rogue story.

broodblik

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Re: Prog 2170 - Regened (2020)
« Reply #40 on: 29 February, 2020, 09:53:48 AM »
The art was not bad per se but was all too similar and to cartoonist. I would have liked a more varied art in the prog.

For people who liked the Finder & Keeper story it will be back in the next regen prog.
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Jacqusie

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Re: Prog 2170 - Regened (2020)
« Reply #41 on: 29 February, 2020, 10:29:39 AM »

What age group is this aimed at? I would say 6-9,

Thats what I was thinking, with the cover proudly boasting an "All ages issue" which is clearly aimed at children and not teens (who are now teenagers at 10 years old). The regular prog is far more attractive for teenagers who are looking for something more sophisticated and cool. I certainly don't think it's for my generation and all ages beyond!

I do however agree that 2000AD needs to attract a younger audience, but just wish that they wouldn't land this in the middle of a run. A more sensible way not to hack readers off is to whack it in after all the stories have concluded just before a jumping on Prog. Or have them as specials to buy seperate.

Rebellion seem to be broadening their comic empire to the younger reader, which is ok, but it feels like it's all starting to render the regular prog a bit secondary at times and I'm pretty sure I'll not be wearing a 'Gums' T-shirt this summer... although I might on for a Minty Jinty one Thargy...                                                 





paddykafka

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Re: Prog 2170 - Regened (2020)
« Reply #42 on: 29 February, 2020, 10:47:01 AM »
Also, I know it's picky, but is concrete generally poured in measures that deep?

If you're in the Mafia body-disposal line of business, I would imagine so.

judgeurko

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Re: Prog 2170 - Regened (2020)
« Reply #43 on: 29 February, 2020, 10:54:27 AM »
I don't see the point of these Regened progs. If young readers enjoy it then next week they pic up the prog & it's completely different. They should just be specials or a separate prog running alongside the real one.
It's been discussed before but it's enormously (prohibitively so) expensive to create a brand new comic and distribute it to newsagents, if it was as simple as just printing it they'd do that, but it's not. You'll hit inertia with the distributers and the newsagents, and newsagents - let's remember - frequently charge for magazines to be located in prime spots - https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/feb/14/wh-smith-moves-telegraph-titles-to-magazine-section ) so I suspect (and I have zero inside knowledge) the hope is they can get these on the shelves in place of regular progs and build the momentum to have the readers/distributers/newsagents ask for more...

(It may be pure wishful thinking to hope we'd get a weekly regened, it could be the fact they're specials is what's making them ...uhm./.. special)
I see. But is there any evidence that these Regen progs increase readership in a significant sustained way? If younger readers pic up this prog do they go on to read it on a regular basis?

IndigoPrime

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Re: Prog 2170 - Regened (2020)
« Reply #44 on: 29 February, 2020, 12:56:09 PM »
Thats what I was thinking, with the cover proudly boasting an "All ages issue" which is clearly aimed at children and not teens (who are now teenagers at 10 years old).
The Phoenix’s stated age range is 7–14, and I don’t think any of the Regened Prog was any more kiddified than what’s in that comic. Also, notably, there are plenty of ‘big two’ strips with similar vibes – even when you head to some of the heavy hitters. (Natch, this is not consistent.)

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I do however agree that 2000AD needs to attract a younger audience, but just wish that they wouldn't land this in the middle of a run. A more sensible way not to hack readers off is to whack it in after all the stories have concluded just before a jumping on Prog. Or have them as specials to buy seperate.
I’ve here and elsewhere said the former. Specials would be fine as well, but it seems Rebellion wants to spend time testing the waters with its other brands (which makes sense – we will only get more comics if they find out what sells). So I’d hope if this becomes a regular thing, we get end-of-run/Regened/jumping-on.

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Rebellion seem to be broadening their comic empire to the younger reader, which is ok, but it feels like it's all starting to render the regular prog a bit secondary at times
There are, what, 49 Progs per year? So now 45 out of 49 are still standard 2000 AD. The Meg is monthly. Most of the trades are still 2000 AD. Even a decent chunk of the Treasury archive is geared towards older readers. (I don’t recall how the stuff Rebellion owns was years back, but on reading The Beano I’d be cautious about my kid reading any pre-2016 Dennis the Menace. I’d therefore probably want to check archival IPC/Fleetway stuff first.)

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and I'm pretty sure I'll not be wearing a 'Gums' T-shirt this summer...
:(

I really loved the Gums strip.

I see. But is there any evidence that these Regen progs increase readership in a significant sustained way? If younger readers pic up this prog do they go on to read it on a regular basis?
I’m not sure the first of those questions matters. If the worst-case scenario is these Regened Progs provide a single-issue bump in sales and don’t impact on 2000 AD negatively as a whole *and* create content that can later be collected and re-sold in trade form, that’s a net plus for the health of the overall portfolio. The only way this becomes a net negative is if enough old gits get furiously angry about reading stories designed for younger eyes four times a year, and throw their toys out of the pram in protest. (From what I’ve seen online, most such people don’t even read the Prog anymore anyway. And the vast majority of commentary on this forum has been much more nuanced and measured.)

As for regular reads, that’s the bit I still struggle with. When a kid loves Regened, what next? Some Treasury bits? OK, but what then? Same with Tammy/Misty/Cor. “There will be another issue next year” or even “in three months” is a tricky one. But then the minimum six-figure launch costs for a new title are a major spanner in the works.

My take on this is Rebellion as an organisation is rightly being cautious in a truly horrible print environment. The company has made some smart decisions regarding archive, and has been putting out content in a way that rewards comics fans. I mean, think about it: we’ve seen a big range of stuff, rather than just usual suspects; and money has been spent remastering pages for the Meg floppy, when Rebellion could have taken a much easier and cheaper route of just shoving in some more old 2000 AD reprint instead. And with the old brands, new strips have been commissioned, rather than Rebellion just scanning some old issues of Cor, Buster and Whizzer and Chips and charging a fiver for that instead.

So from a personal perspective, I’m happy to see where things go. I’d love in particular to see Cor/Buster go monthly. It’d be interesting to see a younger SF/fantasy title on the newsstands also (although 2000 AD branding might prove confusing next to the regular Prog). The worst thing would be for Rebellion to do nothing – and that’s precisely what the owners of all the old stuff were doing prior to Rebellion picking it up; and, arguably, it’s largely what 2000 AD itself had been doing for younger readers for a number of years as well.