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Author Topic: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.  (Read 29399 times)

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #495 on: 09 April, 2020, 10:22:53 PM »
“…the Government remains committed to the idea that the vast majority of the UK population will contract COVID-19, making a minimum number of deaths inevitable, albeit over a longer period of time.

“Using the Government’s own lowest estimate of a fatality rate at around 0.5%, this confirms that it has resigned itself to the expectation that some 264,000 Britons will inevitably die in ensuing months and years from the disease.“


Fuckers. Utter fuckers.

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Funt Solo

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #496 on: 09 April, 2020, 11:58:39 PM »
First time I've heard of the Byline Times: but on the surface I'd be a bit wary of a news source that claims to have the only worthwhile truth (they do so in the article, and in their editorial stance). The story was covered with less mouth-foam by the BBC and the Guardian (for example), neither of which saw the need to decry other news sources as not having dug deeply enough. There are editorial assumptions made (by BT) about the UK government having an over-arching and systemic shadow policy (although I don't doubt that it is possible they do).

The underlying logic is unfortunately difficult to avoid, though. Globally, each economy wants to lift restrictions as soon as it's able. Without a cure (or vaccine), that leaves the population exposed to the virus, which means more deaths. That term "flattening the curve" doesn't say anything about reducing what might be considered a minimum death rate - it does try to stop a maximal death rate (where the health services burst like a damn and potential survivors die by the bucket-load).

Into the subtleties (and here I would hope the UK government has some of its thought). Once you regain control over your health services (once that curve is flattened) you might be in a position to do what the Chinese and South Koreans (as two key examples) seemed to be so good at: isolating victims and tracking their contacts so as to control the spread. You can't do that when the infection is too widespread because it's too complex.

That Rupert Shute guy does seem like a dangerous moron, though. He says "You are no more at risk at the workplace as you would be in your home or at the supermarket". He seems to rather be missing the point of minimizing the number of people around you - unless he assumes we all live in enormous Victorian slum-dwellings with 100 to a room.
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Professor Bear

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #497 on: 10 April, 2020, 02:53:27 AM »
Possibly because insomnia and booze are a factor, I feel the need to clarify that I'm not having a swipe at you, Funt, but: your first instinct is to question a lefty news source while offering as more reliable alternatives a media outlet that spent literally decades suppressing stories about members of government and its own staff raping children, and a newspaper notorious for being abandoned by its own readers in the last few years after being repeatedly caught fabricating stories in service to UK intelligence agencies.
Like I say, it's important to be clear that I'm not having a dig at your post but making an observation about who we instinctively question or give the benefit of the doubt, and why that may be relevant as to why the practically-newborn Byline Times is hostile towards certain monolithic journalistic outlets and how/why they disseminate the information they do.

Funt Solo

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #498 on: 10 April, 2020, 04:09:38 AM »
Honestly, I think it's a fair criticism, to an extent. My defense is that "in all things, balance" (which I'm not sure is a quote, but it sounds like one, so I've used quotation marks).

So, The Guardian has its flaws, as does the BBC: but they both have a lot of staff (so a lot of editorial viewpoints) and a long track record of stories that one may also assume aren't biased. Should I tar their entire output with one brush, or take each instance on its own merits? The Byline Times I am judging on my few minutes of experience with one of their articles and their editorial stance: and it may turn out with the passage of time not to be fair. Still: they do seem to have taken a leap of logic in their reporting on this story - perhaps influenced by their own bias?

My following points (about what we can do in tackling the crisis to both minimize deaths and maximize productivity) were echoed back to me in a Channel 4 News segment tonight with the headline Government advisers probably overlooked mass testing early on, says public health professor.

Whether this proves that I'm following a scientific consensus or whether I'm a slave to the established media is up for debate. No prizes for guessing what I think.
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The Legendary Shark

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #499 on: 10 April, 2020, 07:58:46 AM »

Question everything.

Simple.

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Be excellent to each other. And party on!

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CalHab

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #500 on: 10 April, 2020, 08:38:06 AM »
Thing is, short of a miracle, even our best-case scenario will put us as the worst case in Europe. (I suspect the USA will end up worse off per capita than we do.) The government will need to answer to that. Why did we do worse than Germany, France and even Spain, not least when we had massive advance warning? Blaming scientists won’t be enough when there is video footage of Johnson acting like a fucking idiot and saying he was shaking hands with people, and that we didn’t need to shut stuff down.

If we had a functional and critical popular press then I would agree with you. We don't. We have broadcast media which simply relays government briefings and a print press which is beholden to it's owners.

The Legendary Shark

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #501 on: 10 April, 2020, 08:48:38 AM »

We also have some very good independent journalists and researchers who are, unfortunately, too often dismissed as "conspiracy theorists" (whatever that even means).

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shaolin_monkey

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #502 on: 10 April, 2020, 10:20:27 AM »

We also have some very good independent journalists and researchers who are, unfortunately, too often dismissed as "conspiracy theorists" (whatever that even means).

Here you go Sharkey. Here’s an academic pamphlet on the definition of conspiracy theories and theorists.

https://www.climatechangecommunication.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ConspiracyTheoryHandbook.pdf

sheridan

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #503 on: 10 April, 2020, 10:47:14 AM »
That Rupert Shute guy does seem like a dangerous moron, though. He says "You are no more at risk at the workplace as you would be in your home or at the supermarket". He seems to rather be missing the point of minimizing the number of people around you - unless he assumes we all live in enormous Victorian slum-dwellings with 100 to a room.
Home - alone, kept isolated from contact with potential carriers.

Supermarket - spending a minute or two at a time in close proximity to other people in the same aisle.

Work - spending seven or eight hours a metre or less from potential carriers.

I know which way around I see the hierarchy of risk!

Professor Bear

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #504 on: 10 April, 2020, 02:36:58 PM »
So, The Guardian has its flaws, as does the BBC: but they both have a lot of staff (so a lot of editorial viewpoints) and a long track record of stories that one may also assume aren't biased.

I'll only offer that I would never presume to tell someone they're wrong to boycott The Sun or Daily Mail.

Question everything.

Why?

sheridan

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #505 on: 10 April, 2020, 03:43:35 PM »

Funt Solo

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #506 on: 10 April, 2020, 04:32:47 PM »
Question everything.
Quote
Why?

Why not?

Our first instinct on seeing this image...



...isn't to count the tiles.
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sheridan

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #507 on: 10 April, 2020, 04:49:29 PM »
Question everything.
Quote
Why?

Why not?

Our first instinct on seeing this image...



...isn't to count the tiles.


I was questioning the questioner who questioned the statement to question everything? :-P

Professor Bear

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #508 on: 10 April, 2020, 05:01:30 PM »
Are you sure?

Funt Solo

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #509 on: 10 April, 2020, 05:19:01 PM »
Question everything.
Quote
Why?

Why not?

Our first instinct on seeing this image...



...isn't to count the tiles.


I was questioning the questioner who questioned the statement to question everything? :-P

I can be so dense. Still: nice mosaic.

(And interesting what you can do with 1369 tiles.)
« Last Edit: 10 April, 2020, 05:22:10 PM by Funt Solo »
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