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Author Topic: Pat Mills moving onto new things it would seem  (Read 6956 times)

Funt Solo

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Re: Pat Mills moving onto new things it would seem
« Reply #90 on: 20 August, 2020, 09:29:27 PM »
++ logos ++ stages ++ coma ++

Professor Bear

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Re: Pat Mills moving onto new things it would seem
« Reply #91 on: 20 August, 2020, 09:54:32 PM »
2000ad readers going to the doctor:

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Doctor Doctor, I feel like a thoroughbred horse.

2000ad readers' doctor:

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And how long have you felt like this?

2000ad readers delivering the punchline:

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Since I won the Grand National.

Funt Solo

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Re: Pat Mills moving onto new things it would seem
« Reply #92 on: 20 August, 2020, 11:46:16 PM »
I presume you're referring to the horse in Judge Dredd etc.
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broodblik

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Re: Pat Mills moving onto new things it would seem
« Reply #93 on: 21 August, 2020, 05:48:23 AM »
Now if we all can remember a weeks ago we had the Sci-Fi special release and there was review with Clint Langley and one of the last questions asked was what are you working on for AD/Meg and CL said "More ABC Warriors!".

The article: https://2000ad.com/news/2000-ad-sci-fi-special-john-reppion-clint-langley-talk-black-storm/


Adding my voices to something like ABC Warriors is how I even see the "heroes", they are as bad as the evil they are fighting doing exactly as the "bad" people is doing it and oppressing the voice of freedom of choice and opinion. ABC Warriors has now been on cycle of rinse, repeat, recycle. Still reading it still enjoying it (maybe less that previous series)
Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

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Tjm86

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Re: Pat Mills moving onto new things it would seem
« Reply #94 on: 21 August, 2020, 07:14:38 AM »
So it seems a little peculiar to me that he is taking issue with a publisher that seems to enthusiastic and supportive of his work.
But it's not his work, he doesn't have ownership of it. That's the point.

Fair enough, I can understand the frustration there.  Especially when you consider that Scarlet Traces is an example of greater creative ownership in the prog. 

So are we saying that he is insinuating that Rebellion is adopting the same attitudes as were displayed in the memo?  Ultimately Mills is not exactly renowned for his subtlety, is he?  Then again this time does appear a little more ambiguous in his final point to me.   :-*

rogue69

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Re: Pat Mills moving onto new things it would seem
« Reply #95 on: 21 August, 2020, 07:44:18 AM »
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So are we saying that he is insinuating that Rebellion is adopting the same attitudes as were displayed in the memo?

Pat Mills has said on several occasions that the deal the creators get is basically the same pay rates and contract as it was when Rebellion took over, so he feels that they are getting paid less now for their work if you take inflation and the increase in the cost of living account

Bolt-01

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Re: Pat Mills moving onto new things it would seem
« Reply #96 on: 21 August, 2020, 08:05:54 AM »
Pat Mills has said on several occasions that the deal the creators get is basically the same pay rates and contract as it was when Rebellion took over, so he feels that they are getting paid less now for their work if you take inflation and the increase in the cost of living account

Not to derail the thread but as an NHS worker with almost 30 years service I've not seen a decent (above 1.5%) pay rise since the early 2000's. My per-hour wage is worth much less than it used to be.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Pat Mills moving onto new things it would seem
« Reply #97 on: 21 August, 2020, 08:39:28 AM »
Not to derail the thread but as an NHS worker with almost 30 years service I've not seen a decent (above 1.5%) pay rise since the early 2000's. My per-hour wage is worth much less than it used to be.

I don't think you'll find many comic creators who've seen a significant increase in page rates, certainly in the last twenty years. There are plenty reporting that rates have fallen. Marvel's standard lettering rate is less than I get from publishers a fraction of their size and is half what you could expect them to offer even a few years back.

I'm not saying that's right — quite the opposite, but if Pat thinks there are materially better deals on offer elsewhere in the comic world, he's in for a rude awakening. (And, obviously, it's been a while since he did any work for a French publisher — I was part of a recent discussion on page rates where a couple of bande dessinée artists were bemoaning some truly terrible page rates, despite their books outselling almost anything in the US market.)
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sheridan

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Re: Pat Mills moving onto new things it would seem
« Reply #98 on: 21 August, 2020, 08:53:28 AM »
Fair enough, I can understand the frustration there.  Especially when you consider that Scarlet Traces is an example of greater creative ownership in the prog. 


Is it?  I thought it was creator-owned but that the creators sold the IP to Rebellion before starting on the most recent story?

broodblik

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Re: Pat Mills moving onto new things it would seem
« Reply #99 on: 21 August, 2020, 09:11:30 AM »
Fair enough, I can understand the frustration there.  Especially when you consider that Scarlet Traces is an example of greater creative ownership in the prog. 


Is it?  I thought it was creator-owned but that the creators sold the IP to Rebellion before starting on the most recent story?

Yes that is also my understanding is that it is now owned by Rebellion
Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp.

Colin YNWA

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Re: Pat Mills moving onto new things it would seem
« Reply #100 on: 21 August, 2020, 09:12:27 AM »
Fair enough, I can understand the frustration there.  Especially when you consider that Scarlet Traces is an example of greater creative ownership in the prog. 


Is it?  I thought it was creator-owned but that the creators sold the IP to Rebellion before starting on the most recent story?

Yeah that's my understanding. This also reveals that the idea of owning your own property isn't a simple promised land it can be made out to be. Ian Edgington and D'Irsaeli have assessed their options with a lot more practical insight than we and other 'sage' internet experts have and come up selling their property.

Why? Well I'd guess looking at the balance of risk, cost, reward and probably just the plain practicality of getting your story out there. They will fully understand the factors involved.

Painting Publishers with the same darkly motivated brush is a horribly simplistic view of the world. In a market were sales are hard, rates are low Publishers and WFH serve a very real purpose and always have and will.

Does that mean they all act honorably  of course not. Does that mean they are all the moustache twirling villains some would portray, of course not.

It's a tricky delicately balanced ecosystem out there and that will need variety and smart evolution by all to survive and co-exist.

IAMTHESYSTEM

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Re: Pat Mills moving onto new things it would seem
« Reply #101 on: 21 August, 2020, 09:17:23 AM »
I'm sorry to hear Pat's perhaps leaving 2000AD for a while, and yes his messages did get over repetitive, but he has an exceptional body of work almost like no other. I often wonder why he didn't expand into writing television screenplays, or movies and I'm sure he's had a few ideas for shows or comics that never got made.
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IndigoPrime

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Re: Pat Mills moving onto new things it would seem
« Reply #102 on: 21 August, 2020, 09:51:04 AM »
Jim’s note is, again, extremely important in the context of this thread. There is no promised land right now for comics. They are niche publishing in most parts of the world, and therefore money is tight. The same is also true across a lot of media markets—if you think you’ll get a massive advance for a book, you’ve another thing coming to you. I’m seeing authors getting a fraction of what I used to get back in the early 2000s.

So either you take most of the risk and get most of the spoils—if there are any to be had—or little of the risk and a small amount of the profits. That’s the choice. Mills seems to want his cake and eat it. And there is probably an argument to be had about balance along the way. (See also: the current shitshow that is Apple/Google/Epic.) But. The question remains precisely why did Mills stick with 2000 AD for so long if he hates whoever’s running it with the burning fury of a thousand suns? Just because it’s ‘his’ creation?

And, yeah, Scarlet Traces is an interesting one. Great concept and art. Ideal, you’d think, for top-drawer cash slam-dunk. And yet: initially published on Cool Beans World (defunct), reprinted in the Megazine creator-owned slot (lower rates), collected by Dark Horse (lovely HC volumes, but long OOP), and then eventually fully sold to Rebellion. But hang on: Rebellion are evil and… Oh, I give up.

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Re: Pat Mills moving onto new things it would seem
« Reply #103 on: 21 August, 2020, 10:05:23 AM »
I find the idea of creator-ownership to also have a lot of dodgy baggage that I'm not at all comfortable with. While there're definitely massive issues with exploitation of creators, and writers and artists should have contractual protections against creating a work and having it handed to someone else, some of the strongest advocates of creator-ownership do seem to have a 'my toys' attitude to things that can come across as fairly hypocritical.

Moore, is a great example here, given that a large amount of his work is built on other people's creations. Should he have been denied the right write these works? Mill's work on Dredd is another case in point (albeit a smaller one in comparison to the extensive body of Moore's work that fits this particular bill). Should a creator have the right to deny other people their wish to work with their characters?

Publisher ownership seems like an extreme, and exploitative, solution to this issue, that offers few rewards for creation and little security, but creator-ownership can sometimes seem like the extreme end of music copyright that wanted to ban cover versions and player pianos.

Or at least that's my argument to have someone write a series based on the pre- war with Termight history of the Warlocks.  :D

IndigoPrime

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Re: Pat Mills moving onto new things it would seem
« Reply #104 on: 21 August, 2020, 10:14:34 AM »
2000 AD is an oddity, in that it doesn’t really have many house characters, unlike the big two and IDW. The manner in which it operates is closer to Image, in creators pitching strips and having their sandpit to play in indefinitely. Dredd is an obvious exception, as is Rogue Trooper. People might argue they should therefore be better with creators, but I’d argue that in itself is already ‘being better’. Under Rebellion’s run, it’s not like strips have been handed out like sweets. Strips have generally been long-dead and resurrected, stayed with the original creative team, or shifted creators with the blessing of the original writer. (Even with John Smith’s work, note that on Facebook he publicly stated he was happy with other people writing his characters, even if he wasn’t thrilled by the direction in with RMC took Devlin.)