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COMING SOON - New Tournament - Dredd Epics Ranked - BETTER!!!!

Started by Colin YNWA, 17 February, 2021, 06:38:35 AM

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Colin YNWA

Before we start I owe AlexF - the MIGHTY AlexF a big thank you for this one and I am here with his blessing. 

If you recall during December AlexF produced the simply fantastic Blog Dredd Epics Ranked where he not only ranked all the Dredd Epics ... well I say all we'll come back to that... and wrote thoughts on each in review.

Now I've called this a fantastic Blog and his words and wit, insights and incisiveness were indeed fantastic... his ranking... well they were of course poppycock and many of us rallied and railed against his madness and you can read all of that in his thread.

Well it's oft said if you don't like something, don't moan, do something about it. And that dear reader is just what this tournament aims to do. Take AlexF's ranking of the Dredd Epics and damn well sort it out good and proper like.

This thread will introduce this tourney, explain a few things and we'll be good to go with the tourney - with a fair wind - on Monday 22nd February - and assuming no Current Artists kick up a fuss! So in this thread we'll get.

1. AlexF's rankings - so you can see quite why this needs sorting
2. My ranking so you have the proper answer to all this (and so we can see it's not just AlexF)
3. A nod to the wondrous Broodblik and just what makes an Epic - we're stuck with AlexF I'm afraid
4. Just how this will work - hang in there
5. Rules(ish)

And anything else we can think of on the way. See you in a bit...

broodblik

Looking forward to this and AlexF did a lot of foot-work (no need to reinvent the wheel). I like the fact that both America and The Dead Man will be included
When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.

Old age is the Lord's way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death's in case we didn't take the hint.

AlexF

I'd like to stress that my official ranking was based on re-reading and rating everything on some sort of scale of writing, art and legacy. Frankly, if I'd been doing it just from memory/tase, my own ranking would've been quite different. I am aware this makes no sense.

Colin YNWA

Quote from: AlexF on 17 February, 2021, 07:50:40 PM
I'd like to stress that my official ranking was based on re-reading and rating everything on some sort of scale of writing, art and legacy. Frankly, if I'd been doing it just from memory/tase, my own ranking would've been quite different. I am aware this makes no sense.

Makes perfect sense. When you create a more objective scale to an objective decision - how much you like something - stuff will be different. You can know something is a great story, with good art but still not like it. The measure you used was incredibly powerful tool to knock nostalgia off the scales, which is a very useful tool, but anathema to whining fanboys like myself... and speaking of which...

Colin YNWA

So clearly if we've having a tourney about ranking Dredd Epics in order of gooditude why don't we just use AlexF's ranking and be done with it. After all he's a smart, witty and thoughtful commentator, so why mess about with what he says... we might not agree, but does it really need a whole tourney to sort it out?

Here's AlexF's rankings:

1. America
2. The Dead Man
3. Origins
4. Block Mania / Apocalypse War
5. Day of Chaos
6. Terror / Total War
7. Mandroid
8. Titan / Enceladus
9. Machine Law
10. The Day the Law Died, aka Judge Cal
11. The Cursed Earth
12. The Judge Child
13. Necropolis
14. The Small House
15. The Pit
16. Oz
17. Block Judge
18. Served Cold/The Cop
19. Dead Zone
20. Every Empire Falls
21. Krong Island
22. Fetish
23. Dark Justice
24. Beyond the Call of Duty
25. End of Days
26. Judgement on Gotham
27. Judge Dredd vs Aliens: Incubus
28. Tour of Duty
29. Wilderlands
30. Trifecta
31. Helter Skelter
32. Die Laughing
33. Sin City
34. Blood Trails
35. The Ecstasy
36. Judgement Day
37. Cold War [The Adventures of Judge Dredd in the Land of the Soviets]
38. Darkside
39. Mandroid 2 Instrument of War
40. Mechanismo
41. The Hunting Party
42. Doomsday
43. The Mega-Rackets
44. The Robot War
45. The Chief Judge's Man
46. Raptaur
47. City of the Damned
48. Dead Ringer
49. Purgatory/Inferno
50. Luna-City
51. Blood of Satanus III
52. Crusade

Just look at number 42, just look at number 28, see the Cursed Earth at number chuffin' 11. Okay so we all agree this needs doing then. Good let's move on shall we.

Mind AlexF's ranking are important as we'll be using these as the whole basis for this tourney. We're not making our own rankings we're chuffin' well sorting his out.

Though as AlexF has said his were based on re-read and a considered scale. What does some randoms list look like and is it any better... well yes as that random will be me and my list is RIGHT... oh yes it is... join me in the morning so you can agree...

Rogue Judge

Looking forward to this! I haven't read ALL the epics so migh have to vote based on the artist/writer in some cases...or do I just skip those votes to be fair?

Colin YNWA

Quote from: Rogue Judge on 17 February, 2021, 11:19:44 PM
Looking forward to this! I haven't read ALL the epics so migh have to vote based on the artist/writer in some cases...or do I just skip those votes to be fair?

The format will hopefully mean you will be fine. A later post will hopefully cover all that.

Colin YNWA

My ranking so you have the proper answer to all this (and so we can see it's not just AlexF)

Now it's important to be fair to AlexF. Anyone can produce a ranking using whatever mechanism they choose and in doing that everyone else will disagree with that ranking to some degree or other. So for example I hear lots of folks say Necropolis is the best Epic - no, no, no we all know that's at number 12 in fact... how do we know this  - well in a effort to make this not all about correcting AlexF's ranking I did my own so that can be shot at too.

So he's my list:

1.    Tour of Duty
2.    The Cursed Earth
3.    The Pit
4.    America
5.    The Dead Man
6.    Terror / Total War
7.    Block Mania / Apocalypse War
8.    Day of Chaos
9.    Trifecta
10.    Titan / Enceladus
11.    Machine Law
12.    Necropolis
13.    Origins
14.    The Small House
15.    Blood Trails
16.    Oz
17.    Every Empire Falls
18.    Mandroid
(19.    Dead Zone)
20.    Mandroid 2 Instrument of War
21.    The Day the Law Died, aka Judge Cal
22.    Mechanismo
23.    Served Cold/The Cop
24.    Block Judge
25.    Doomsday
26.    The Judge Child
27.    The Chief Judge's Man
28.        Krong Island
29.    Sin City
30.    The Mega-Rackets
(31.    Die Laughing)
32.    Beyond the Call of Duty
33.    End of Days
34.    The Hunting Party
35.    Judge Dredd vs Aliens: Incubus
36.    Cold War [The Adventures of Judge Dredd in the Land of the Soviets]
37.    The Robot War
38.    Dark Justice
39.    Fetish
40.    Wilderlands
41.    Judgement Day
42.    Judgement on Gotham
43.    Luna-City
44.    Raptaur
45.    Darkside
46.    Helter Skelter
47.    City of the Damned
48.    The Ecstasy
(49.    Dead Ringer)
50.    Purgatory/Inferno
(51.    Blood of Satanus III)
52.    Crusade


Now clearly the problem with knocking mine is it's correct, on every level and stands up to any close examination ... well except for the fact I've actually not read everything on AlexF's list and so in those cases I can do nothing but cede to the formers list and work around those - I've put brackets around those. Ahem no really this the list we should get to when we've done here.

When this tourney is done we will have a more* consensus view and I'll be comparing both lists to see whose is most in step with the majority view.

*Please note as you'll see soon my methodology isn't scientific AT ALL and there are real issues with it but, I've compromised proper consensus approach with making this a fun tourney (I hope) - though I have made it very different to normal... well for the most part. Read on...



Magnetica

Now you see this list just isn't correct either; we better get to the tournament to sort it out.

Also I'm stunned that such a leading light of the forum such as yourself hasn't read all of theses epics. Not buying the Megazine is simply no excuse.

broodblik

I agree Magnetica the list looks quite weird and needs sorting asap
When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.

Old age is the Lord's way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death's in case we didn't take the hint.

AlexF

Dead Zone in particular is really terrific, possibly Flint's best ever Dredd art. Possibly.

Oh, and in case anyone wanted to add any MORE into this list (and I'm 100% sure Colin, for one, does not), one commentor in the blog pointed out that by my own criteria, Judge Dredd vs Predator should have qualified. Had I noticed that, I'd have put it one slot below Raptaur. The story is better, the art is worse (by my reckoning) and it didn't have anything legacy-wise to match both the Raptaur and Karyn, who went on to have life beyond this first story.

Can't wait to find out what madness Colin has cooked up here!

zombemybabynow

Good manners & bad breath get you nowhere

broodblik

Trifecta must count, yes it is not purely a Dredd story but it ends in one big Dredd one prog story.
When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.

Old age is the Lord's way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death's in case we didn't take the hint.

Colin YNWA

Quote from: broodblik on 18 February, 2021, 10:27:46 AM
Trifecta must count, yes it is not purely a Dredd story but it ends in one big Dredd one prog story.

Yep its in there and all this talk of what does or doesn't count leads me nicely into...

Colin YNWA

A nod to the wondrous Broodblik and Just what makes an Epic

So what makes a Epic Dredd tale. Well last year the lovely broodblik did a fantastic vote on what our favourite long form Dredd was. He had a very different list of what should be included. So while I loved that vote I'm going to ignore it here - sorry Broodblik!

Now I know the actual list of Dredd Epics is just; Robot Wars; The Cursed Earth; The Day the Law Died; Judge Child; Apocalypse War; City of the Damned; Oz; Necropolis; Judgement Day; Purgatory / Inferno; Wilderlands; The Pit; Doomsday; Origins, Tour of Duty and Day of Chaos. The rest are just long Dredd stories.

How do I get to my list - well I dunno it's just the way it's always been in my head and I've applied no logic to it at all. Alex F did and stuck to it. And so for the sake of this tournament I have no choice but to respect that and stick with it.

You will of course have your own list and here comes the magic. If you don't think one story or another counts as an Epic simply don't vote for it. In the hope that it won't get a very high placing. If enough folks agree with you then all good. If enough folks vote for it however - however wrong they are - there's a consensus that it counts and we just have to move on with our lives!