Mill's source?

[Proudhuff]

SPOILERS] Re: Prog 1351 posted by dubhthach on 31 Jul 03 at 15:43
In reply to [SPOILERS] Prog 1351 posted by paulvonscott on 28 Jul 03 at 09:19

Funny thing i find about Slaine and Pat Mills writing, is that most of it is lifted out of "Leabar na Gabhla na h?ireann" (Book of Invasions of Ireland ) which dates to the 12th century.
This current story arc. is based on the final invasion as chronicled in Leabhar na Gabhala, that of the Sons of Mile (whose wife was Scota). The sons of Mile are the Irish race!

[dubhthach]

check the following link and you will find mention to Golamh also out of the book of the invasions.
http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/T100054/text052.html

ucc is University College Cork, an irish university

[maryanddavid]

there were 3 main invasions in mytological ireland,the fir bolg , the thuath dedannan and the milesians or the gaels,none of which claimed to be celtic,mills based the horned god on the thuath dedannans battles with the formorians from the book of invasions as well.the gaels are seen as real people and the thuath probably were the old celtic gods, which after christianity gradualy changed into the si ie beansi and lepreachan etc. for me the best slaine stories are when mills sticks closeset to the ledgends.hope this rambling have been some help.
ps good books to read on the subgect are jim fitzpatricks the silver arm and the book of conquestd,for starters and and lady gregorys cuchillain and of gods and fighting men.

[Richmond Clements]

One of the things that really turned me against thw whole Slaine thing, was the time Mills took the legend of the Children Of Lir (they turned into swans) and just stuck Slaine in the middle of it. This annoys me because, if you didn't know the legend, you would assume Mills had crafted a great tale, rather than lazily rehash one.

[Mudcrab]

"for me the best slaine stories are when mills sticks closeset to the ledgends"

For sure. I got a book on Celtic legends years ago (by Roger Delaney I think) and was amazed by the similarities that Mills used, especially the Cuchulain (?) stuff in The Cattle Raid of Cooley.

Hmm, looking through an index of names here. Some interesting links:

Lug: divine father of Cuchulain (Slaine used to refer to him a lot)
Mebd: queen of Connacht (actually the one who went to war against Ulster, who were championed by Cuchulain.
MacRoth: Medb's chief messenger

Link: http://vassun.vassar.edu/~sttaylor/Cooley/index.html" target="_blank">The Cattle Raid of Cooley

[Mudcrab]

There is that. It's a fine line I reckon. I remember that being discussed here (or maybe alt.comics.2000ad) around the time.

[davidbishop]

If you're casting blame on the Swan Children of Lir, you better fling it at me. Pat did request that the inspiration for the story be clearly acknowledged in the comic and I simply forgot to include it.

Mea culpa.

davidbishop

[Richmond Clements]

Fair enough, Mr. Bishop, fair enough. Cosider the blame flung!

[SmallBlueThing]

well, your Lordship, does this mean you're now going to re-read all the post-Swan Children Slaines with a more forgiving eye? Perhaps, with the Bishop droid's bombshell, we may yet see the end of the frantic Mills-bashing that has become so prevelant of late! (I have no idea what you think of Slaine, btw, HLR, I was just replying to your earlier post).

Though probably not.

I had a good long think to myself this afternoon about why I like Slaine so much. The conclusion I came to is this: it's just so damn good. When Mills gets the right artist (as Langley is) and writes in a rage (as he seems to be doing now, but probably isn't) nothing in 2000ad can touch it.

Of course, when he's writing while being tickled, and paired up with the wrong artist, it all goes pear shaped. Hence Secret Commonwealth.

Sigh. I rant. I'm only here cos the baby is creating downstairs and I wanted some peace and quiet while the lady deals with him.

I go now.

Steev

[Misanthrope]

Prefer brown sauce myself.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[Richmond Clements]

"well, your Lordship, does this mean you're now going to re-read all the post-Swan Children Slaines with a more forgiving eye?"

I said recently in another forum, that I think Mills is the most important writer in British comics. And this is the reason I feel so let down by his recent work. The fact that Bish didn't print the acknowlegement of the source, does not change the fact that Slaine was just plonked down in the middle of it.
During that whole Quantum Leap Slaine thing, the whole idea was just tired. Mr. Mills just did not seem to be interested in what he was doing. But as you said, the artists Slaine attracts are nearly always outstanding, and this alone helps to lift even the most unimaginative of tales.

But now, I am prepared to be wrong. The ABC Warriors was great. Moloch I didn't really enjoy, even with the eye catching Death and a great villian. This new run has started well, though, with some of the most astonishing art I have ever seen.
Let's not forget, Mills created Nemesis and Torquemada, surely one of the greatest comic double acts ever ever. He can do it when he wants to.

[Queen Firey-Bou]

hmmm,
well i love a celtic yarn meself, and if you look into storytelling across time & space ( Bou fresh from hosting trad' storytelling day with drama & workshops etc this week).. tales are criss crossed & re-hashed & re-told, even the oldest have diff' versions or diff endings,the fairie-being becomes the devil or whatever.

so re-mixing olde tales is okay with me ( except when disney does it ), But this close sourcing of ancient stuff then going ballistic with Fans who wanna draw his characters is just muddled. I mean is it okay to draw a warped warrior with red black & blond hair & the gae blog etc etc, hanging with cernounnos, meabh, lug whoever, as long as he's called cuchuiallain not Slaine?

The myths belong to everyone.

[La Mer]

even tho its a thinly veiled rant against organiszed religion and the government of the day - i still like finn!! and would like to see more. Always thught he could have done a slaine/finn crossover - batlling the same old one/ newt ?

[Oddboy]

HP Chili - that's the best one.

[Mudcrab]

"The myths belong to everyone."

Damn well said Queenie. He he, am I allowed to call you that? Good to see that kind of thing surviving (storytelling). If it wasn't for that, we'd never have had Slaine at all, or at least not in same way. Even the oldesst surviving versions of Cuchulain and indeed King Arthur (Hah! The legendary King of England, NOT. Welsh/Celtic, I think he was in the oldest version of the story, but possibly English geographically) are twists on versions told by generations back etc etc. There is though, a need for the kind of themes and imagary these stories create, and if a writer can capture those without ripping too much out of the legends then great. Pat Mills did it superbly with Slaine. Along with a few others, I grew a bit bored of it during the Quantum Leap period, especially the Wallace stuff, nicely(?) put out after Braveheart. That seemed a bit contrived. Although the stuff when Niamh was reincarnated as a bloke was really quite funny.

As someone else mentioned though, Mills gave us Nemesis & Torquemada, arguably one of the best things to grace the hallowed pages of tooth. For this, Slaine, the Warriors and for basically shaping tooth in many ways (obviously not alone), he should get a Knighthood. Hehe, wonder what he'd think of that?