4-6 issues New Series rather than 10-12

[paulvonscott]

A gem was about series I picked up from the alt. newsgroup (Groggins).  

Why give a new series ten or twelve episodes when we could give them four or six issues to tell a story in?  Introduce some of the characters, tell a simple story that keeps peoples attention and see what people think of it.  

It seems like we've had a lot of ten or twelve part series that havn't really sparked off any lasting interest.  When you consider than a ten part Dredd story is almost hailed as an epic, why give an epic to an untested and unfamiliar character?  Seems odd.

It would avoid 'runs' of 2000AD where it has the same contents for a month or two at a time and keep it fresh.  I'm not sure it should be 'the law' and that a good ten part virgin series couldn't get in, but it would be a new approach.

'nuff said (can't believe I just said that)

[kertap]

I don't know about that. When I started reading 2000ad again about 2 years ago after prog 2000 there was an excellent story in it called Badlands. I absolutely love this story. The thing is it wouldn't have been the same if it had a sort of introductory 4 part. The way i see it is that stories are too short already (mostly this applies to dredd but a love like blood alos suffered). It is up too the editor to decide what should be of a high enough standard for printing.

[paulvonscott]

I did say that it shouldn't exclude 10-12 parters, if a great story comes along.  Do it.  Unfortuantely editors don't get great ten part stories handed to them that often (you can only work with what you have).

I know nothing of your human Badlands, but I'll take your word for it.  Badlands may have worked, how many don't.  How many strips have some good elements that don't quite fit together or quite gel?  I think a lot, an awful lot.  Think about it.

I think you could take a lot of the stuff from the last few years and if it had been approached more modestly could have really developed.  Comissioning a ten part new series means you either succeed or fail.  And you just can't guarentee a success.  

Then at the end of those ten weeks you have a character or strip no one ever wants to see again.  Shame, if you had started more slowly you may not have blown the good will that readers could give a strip.

But really, I think people should learn to walk before they can run.  And giving people a ten part series, from future shocks seems an alarming move.  It has also reigned for well over ten years now and as far as reaping what you sow goes that counts for me as an arguement against giving all new series a 10 part story arc.

Now ten episodes devoted to two or three stories might be a goo compromise.  When stories have established themselves, THEN they deserve a ten part+ series.

Think of all the old classics.  Dredd didn't tell an epic story in one go.  In fact go back and see how many did.  Not a lot. They started with a one-offs and smaller stories.  

What I'm saying is get the basics right before you launch into an epic tale.  If you write a four or six parter, you have time to stop, look at how it's turned out and see how it goes, adpat an really work with the material and then do another story.

The problem with stories being too short is that a big story is trying to be squeezed into a small space.  There seems to be an obsession with grand visions rather than good characters and storytelling.  

Basically you are either stretching out a story which can't cope with ten parts or compressing a story which should be developed more slowly.

I could go on, but an old lady at the back has collapsed.

Cheers :)

PVS

[Stu]

I think you've got a point there. New strips seem to come along, last for about 10 progs or so and then vanish for ever. Things like Red Fang, Rain Dogs, Carver Hale, Vanguard etc.
Even promising strips like Necronauts, A Love Like Blood, Glimmer Rats etc seem to go this way (I looks like Storming Heaven will be added to this list soon)
I'd rather see characters given time to develop over the course of a few shorter stories than have them thrown straight into ten parters.

Badlands was 5 progs long btw. I quite liked it, especially the artwork.

[paulvonscott]

That's what I mean, perhaps having only 5 parts would have focussed creativity a bit more for some strips.  Restrictions aren't always a bad thing.

And if a story is really just plain old fashioned crap then it has only stank up four issues or so.  And the other six could be given over to another six epsiode new series which might fare better.

Especially as everyone is begging for new series.

[JTurner]

On the subject of story spans, wouldn't one 12 page story be better for character development than two 6 page episodes, one problem with 2000AD stories is that they are constantly constrained by the plot by being forced to build up to a cliffhanger. For me the Megazine stories have far greater potential for creating lasting characters with depth (with the possible exception of Wardog).

[paulvonscott]

Well you would think that, logically it seems so, but look at Storming Heaven.  No characterisation.  having said that, that was a very ambitious story squeezed into too small a space.

What I'm saying is that ten or twelve parter should be EARNED.  Not just given out to a new series.  Yhat initial six parter will of course have less in it (though sometimes I doubt it).  But if it proves worth more, then it'll get it.

Alan moore could introduce a character and tell a story, a very good story, in five pages.  Before he wrote watchmen or v for vendetta.

There is little point in writing a new watchmenstrip for a ten part six page strip.  i think it's just people getting their scale out of whack.  We are in our modern comics 'epic' or 'great story' mentality I think is quite damaging.  All the older stories started off on a small scale.

[JTurner]

Whoa! I wasn't saying 12 episodes, I was saying 12 pages! No debut earns 12 episodes! One 12 page story, without being bogged down by the week wait until the next episode.

j.

[paulvonscott]

Sorry J, my brain wasn't accepting incoming signals!  I was thinking parts rather than pages

Yes, fully agree with that point, longer episodes would be a godsend, we aren't kids anymore and don't have that short an attention span it should be cut up into 6 pages sections.  I think 2000AD should change it's format too, but we've had that discussion and I lost :)

I think a 6 part (each of six page) shakara or storming heaven to start with would have improved my enjoyment about 200%.  And I'd probably be much more keen to see them again.

[The Amstor Computer]

Good points being made here. IIRC, many of the characters now regarded as classics started with one-shots or brief runs. For example:

Rogue Trooper - One-offs in prog 228, 229, 230 etc.. Stuff like "Nu Paree", "Raiders" & "Glass Zone" wasn't ground-breaking, but it introduced an interesting character & developed him enough to support a longer stretch in "Ascent to Buzzard-Three".

Slaine - Again, starting with "The Time Monster" & "The Beast in the Broch", 1 and 4-parters respectively, the series built on a number of mini-runs before hitting the first 6-parter. The character was built over several months, mixing one-offs with 2- or 3-parters. The stories were short & not as satisfying as epics like The Apocalypse War, but they laid the foundations for more involving sagas further down the line.

Off the top of my head, Nemesis, D.R. & Quinch, ABC Warriors, Strontium Dog, Sinister Dexter & Nikolai Dante all started with bite-size episodes (though Dante had a "grand plan" behind it...)
It's interesting to see that Sin/Dex & Dante are two of the few (only?) thrills over the past few years to return & be both fairly consistent, enjoyable & popular.

There's a lot of recent material that had great potential, but it was stretched too far.
Necronauts - superb art & a good story, but it needed the build-up of half-a-dozen short stories spread over a couple of months to prepare readers for the longer tale that Fraze & Rennie gave us. Supporting characters could have been fleshed out & the world could have been sketched in greater detail - then the death of Houdini might have been less of a full stop & more of a jumping-off point for future tales from that universe.

This isn't denigrating the story that we ended up with, but it's a crying shame to see such potential snuffed out after one story.

Same goes for Shakara. Imagine that story strung out in 1- or 2-part episodes over several months, rather than the chain of seemingly unrelated episodes we've been landed with. I'd bet that the frustration felt by a lot of fans would be replaced with anticipation - "cool - Shakara's back" instead of "hurry the *fuck* up!".

Anyway - I've ranted for long enough ;-)

[Anemic_Newt]

Despite my regular requests for epics I couldn't agree more with the ideas expressed in this thread. I only hope some official peeps have taken note of what has been said.
Congrats PVS for a superb articulate thread creating genuine discussion rather than my ususal mumblings

Anemic_Newt

[kertap]

Sorry about the badlands mistake, glimmer rats would have been a better example. Any way I wasn't thinking yesterday, and I misinterpreted what you were saying.